Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Attacking a hospital is a war crime, Strictly speaking, if people we don't like attack a hospital it's a war crime; if we do it, it's an accident. > so how is it not terrorism? Murdering civilians during a war is a war crime; that doesn't mean murder automatically equals terrorism outside of war.
Come on. Blowing up a hospital is a crime, and arguably terrorism. Disabling the hospital and systematically preventing it from treating patients is a lesser thing. But still arguably terrorism if done intentionally. And yes, it matters if an enemy or friend does it. That's so obvious to not merit discussion.
FBI, DHS, HHS Warn of Imminent Ransomware Threat Against U.S. Hospitals
301–310 of 357 posts
Re: FBI, DHS, HHS Warn of Imminent Ransomware Threat Against U.S. Hospitals
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Come on. Blowing up a hospital is a crime, and arguably terrorism. Disabling the hospital and systematically preventing it from treating patients is a lesser thing. But still arguably terrorism if done intentionally. And yes, it matters if an enemy or friend does it. That's so obvious to not merit discussion.
How is it "arguably terrorism" and not extortion?
Re: FBI, DHS, HHS Warn of Imminent Ransomware Threat Against U.S. Hospitals
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
In general, regulated entities are required to regularly prove that their change-management processes are sufficiently heavy as to make regular patching a non-starter.
This. A million times. Regulation isn't the solution to this industry's woes -- it's the cause.
It's been a long time since 1996, but most of the IT messes inside health organizations are self-inflicted. HIPAA and friends don't mandate which operating systems you use, specify approved encryption algorithms, or tell you when and how to update your computer systems. These are all choices left to the implementation teams, and they chose to work with vendors who aligned their solutions to information architectures that just don't change very fast. I think if you compared this IT situation to, say, large scale manufacturing in the US you'd find similar problems of outdated platforms supporting expensive and hard-to-change niche software. And it's probably market forces, not government regulation, that's responsible for this similarity.
Re: FBI, DHS, HHS Warn of Imminent Ransomware Threat Against U.S. Hospitals
#304If this attack results in actual loss of life, I firmly believe the US should ensure that there are real-world physical consequences for these criminals. They cannot be described as anything less than the worst humanity has to offer. A failure to respond with meaningful and severe consequences for those responsible (assuming this is attack can be confidently attributed to a particular threat actor) opens the floodgat…
And if it’s from China? This is going to be a controversial suggestion, but I have a feeling that we might already be in an asymmetric world war and our leaders might quietly know it. This year has felt like checkmate.
Mutually assured destruction for the cyber-age.
If it's organized criminal hackers we're dealing with, then we should treat them how we would treat any legitimate terroristic threat. I would want our intelligence agencies to reach out and touch them.
This may not be a popular point of view on Hacker News. I unfortunately cannot fathom an alternative solution.
Re: FBI, DHS, HHS Warn of Imminent Ransomware Threat Against U.S. Hospitals
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is it "arguably terrorism" and not extortion?
Because of the confusion, death and fear it creates. It's a hospital, remember?
First it was terrorism because it's deliberate; now it's terrorism because it creates confusion, death and fear.
Here's just one example that checks all those boxes and is, of course, not terrorism:
Re: FBI, DHS, HHS Warn of Imminent Ransomware Threat Against U.S. Hospitals
#306If this attack results in actual loss of life, I firmly believe the US should ensure that there are real-world physical consequences for these criminals. They cannot be described as anything less than the worst humanity has to offer. A failure to respond with meaningful and severe consequences for those responsible (assuming this is attack can be confidently attributed to a particular threat actor) opens the floodgat…
So should Russia do the same? After all the US did officially declare a cyberwar against Russia. If this ends up being attributed to Russia they have a very real defence in pointing the finger at the US and saying "You started it!"
Re: FBI, DHS, HHS Warn of Imminent Ransomware Threat Against U.S. Hospitals
#307Re: FBI, DHS, HHS Warn of Imminent Ransomware Threat Against U.S. Hospitals
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is my experience that hospital(s) do not have the budget for Windows 10 across their entire network.
In that case, my proposal would be that hospital customers should be able to opt into a program that allows them to buy a thumb drive from the hospital that has their records in an encrypted file, with images exported into an open lossless standard such as PNG. What size thumb drive would most patients individual records fit onto?
Re: FBI, DHS, HHS Warn of Imminent Ransomware Threat Against U.S. Hospitals
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
The goal of terrorism is always political. Fear is the tool used by terrorism to reach the goal. Fear is a defining feature, but just means to an end. As others have noted: while this instance is unlikely to be terrorism, this is a tool that is useful in terrorism and has been used as such in the past.
Citing Wikipedia [1] > The use of violence or of the threat of violence in the pursuit of political, religious, ideological or social objectives One could argue these are all political. In the end, you can deduce anything to being political. Or this definition by Alex P. Schmid from 1988: > "Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-)clandestine individual, group, or state…
Re: FBI, DHS, HHS Warn of Imminent Ransomware Threat Against U.S. Hospitals
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is what terrorism looks like in 2020. Given the (extra-)legal powers that are activated by that word, I'd be circumspect in using it. Many crimes are "horrifying, terrifying, [and] disgusting" without rising to the level of terrorism.
Attacking a hospital is a war crime, so how is it not terrorism?