Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

buzzfeednews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 316 posts

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#301

Post by ardy42 »

datameta wrote: post #204
knolax wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone that disagrees with you is a shill. What an enlightened mind you have. EDIT: reply to comment below. What's DRP? The existence of real shills doesn't give you free reign to cover your ears and yell shill any time you hear an opposing opinion (I've never seen the people who cry shill do so when it's someone that agrees with them). I could easily call you a shill but that doesn't get us anywhere. Focus on the…

Do you deny that the DRP gov't is directly or indirectly paying many thousands of people to wage a vast information war on social media?

> Do you deny that the DRP gov't is directly or indirectly paying many thousands of people to wage a vast information war on social media?

First of all, I'm assuming by "DRP" you mean the PRC. Is DRP a non-English acronym?

The PRC definitely employs online shills, but my understanding is that they're mostly active on the Chinese language internet.

I think the people we encounter on the English internet who seem like shills actually have more in common with GamerGate than the actual government-employed 50 cent party. They even go on hamfisted GamerGate-like harassment campaigns against people they don't like.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#302

Post by free_rms »

panpanna wrote: post #276
free_rms wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion is a part of daily life for many, many Chinese. It's different, not Abrahamic, more of a syncretic blend of taoist, buddhist and localized icons. Monks and nuns take their roles seriously. Xi's government, in contrast to the communist governments 60 years ago, leverages it in a standard social conservative way rather than being against it on communist grounds. It's all over their propaganda. Anti-communist t…

Oh they ironi.. > Xi's government, in contrast to the communist governments 60 years ago, leverages it in a standard social conservative way rather than being against it on communist grounds This is literally written on a thread about people jailed and tortured because of their religion. > Why not either spend time learning about this place, or stop caring? The Chinese government has made it impossible to communicate…

It's not ironic, it's standard. Cultural conservatives in the US also dump on islam.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#303

Post by refurb »

snypher wrote: post #264
refurb wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could find it, but there is a Wikipedia article on a railway spur in that region. If I remember correctly it was mostly built with gulag labor and it lasted a few years at most before it fell apart due to the climate and terrain (not solid ground).

Do you mean the Salekhard–Igarka Railway? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salekhard%E2%80%93Igarka_Railw... https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18116112

That’s the one!

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#304

Post by fakedang »

milankragujevic wrote: post #280
fakedang wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was looking at the issue from a more EU-centric perspective tbf. Not from the PoV of say Serbia or Pakistan. For most of the aforementioned countries, such as Italy or Greece, in the event actual conflict happens (say Russian aggression with Chinese support/interference), the ties are loose enough that they can be severed with much less economic harm, than say Serbia or Pakistan which are apparently deeply integrat…

Yes, in that case it is true. But, they were never in any danger of China to begin with. I look from my own point of view, and I do not like what I see one bit. Bit by bit, all the vassal states an empire make.

Take a look at the number of Western European startups and companies being acquired by China already. What the Western governments don't have are bottomless pockets of cash ripe for acquisitions. Instead the only tool they have are hostile regulations against foreign acquisitions. Even then, the allure of money is strong and the Chinese seem to find ways to extract technology, one way or the other.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#305

Post by fqye »

ghostwriter wrote: post #288
fqye wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

images or videos of families confined in a camp, children, women and old men / women from reliable source. When we talk about concentration camp, it is always about large number of families.

Who/what would be a "reliable source" for you? Also, a concentration camp is not defined in terms of families/women/children confined in it, there were many concentration camps in history that captured individual members of families, who were not ideologically aligned with a totalitarian regime of that time and place, the whole soviet Gulag system was built on secrecy and minimal exposure to public, when individual m…

I don't agree with you. That kind of camps should be called prisons or something else.

Now when people talk about concentration camps, they mostly refer to the camps of Nazi's or the US's for Japanese Americans during WWII.

I mean that is the most insidious side of the concentration camp accusation against China.

Reliable source means established entities like media or research institution that verify what they get. I would name New Yorker as an example, which manages to maintain very high standard of professionalism.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#306

Post by frequentnapper »

versteegen wrote: post #291
frequentnapper wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if we're not allowed to be emotional about genocide, then I'm not sure we are allowed to be human at all.

No one could disagree. My inane comment was just a distraction from the topic, sorry. I really only wanted to say that a sober suggestion could convince more people than a crudely aggressive one. Try again?

Which part did you find aggressive? Prosecuting those responsible for aiding in the genocide of a people?

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#307

Post by versteegen »

frequentnapper wrote: post #306
versteegen wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one could disagree. My inane comment was just a distraction from the topic, sorry. I really only wanted to say that a sober suggestion could convince more people than a crudely aggressive one. Try again?

Which part did you find aggressive? Prosecuting those responsible for aiding in the genocide of a people?

World war? Indiscriminate ire at Baidu execs?

The horrible reality of humanity is that people follow orders they shouldn't, because you don't want to be the only person to say no, achieving nothing. It goes even further in the Stanford prison experiment. That's why autocratic regimes like Belarus's persist long after everyone knows they have no legitimacy.

Also, (Re: "PRC supporters and enablers") I assume the vast majority of the people working in the Chinese government are decent people and have never had to do anything immoral.

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#308

Post by grugagag »

fqye wrote: post #305
ghostwriter wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who/what would be a "reliable source" for you? Also, a concentration camp is not defined in terms of families/women/children confined in it, there were many concentration camps in history that captured individual members of families, who were not ideologically aligned with a totalitarian regime of that time and place, the whole soviet Gulag system was built on secrecy and minimal exposure to public, when individual m…

I don't agree with you. That kind of camps should be called prisons or something else. Now when people talk about concentration camps, they mostly refer to the camps of Nazi's or the US's for Japanese Americans during WWII. I mean that is the most insidious side of the concentration camp accusation against China. Reliable source means established entities like media or research institution that verify what they get.…

Well, concentration camps are what they are, places where people are brought en mass and kept there forcefully. What exactly they look like and how they compare to the Nazi camps or the soviet gulag is not relevant, plus we are more than half a century later and in a different part of the world so comparing the details isn’t relevant at this point. Ive just seen some sad footage from China with an Uygur woman who was released after 2 years and her 3-4 years old daughter who she was separated from - was holding her arms around her telling her not to cry. The woman was saying they were rushed by guards and zapped with electricity in their heads to make them move faster. Tell me what kind of danger did that poor woman pose to China and why did she have to be taken away from her daughter? Are you heartless or what? I guess you are but I don’t wish that upon you or your family, just for you to try to put yourself in her shoes. You’re on the good side of the chinese history just because you weren’t born an uygur but that’s just chance. Please do try to show some compassion for your fellow human beings.

Ive also saw some footage of non-Uygur, regular Chinese, albeit poor who were agressively being beaten by police. You Chinese are coward for letting them beat you like that. Maybe you’re well connected and untouchable is all I can think, otherwise you seem somewhat informed, you have access to the outside world and can see for yourself what is going in in your own country. Be human!

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#309

Post by grugagag »

dumb1224 wrote: post #297
kube-system wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the situation in HK, I find it very believable that it would not be in the best interest for a foreigner living on the mainland to get involved in political criticism — at least - until they leave the country.

Sure if you believe you're at certain risk. But these channels were talking about Serpentza and his behaviour telling untruth about other vloggers. It has nothing to do with political criticism.

From what I saw with my own eyes he and his fellow blogger were documenting inconvenient truths about China and their lives were in danger to stay any longer there. It is quite dangerous to be even in HK at the moment, the CCP’s armed forces are extremely vicious, perhaps at Xinnie the Pooh’s direct orders, his ego was severely bruised as he’s a sore looser just like our current president. Let’s hope he doesn’t turn into another Mao, thugh it could be even worse..

Re: Blanked-out spots on China's maps helped us uncover Xinjiang's camps

#310

Post by dumb1224 »

grugagag wrote: post #309
dumb1224 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure if you believe you're at certain risk. But these channels were talking about Serpentza and his behaviour telling untruth about other vloggers. It has nothing to do with political criticism.

From what I saw with my own eyes he and his fellow blogger were documenting inconvenient truths about China and their lives were in danger to stay any longer there. It is quite dangerous to be even in HK at the moment, the CCP’s armed forces are extremely vicious, perhaps at Xinnie the Pooh’s direct orders, his ego was severely bruised as he’s a sore looser just like our current president. Let’s hope he doesn’t turn…

My comment wasn't about any political stance he has nor what might cause his journey. It was the interactions with other foreign youtubers in China. And surely the inconvenient truths were at most documented/collated material by serpentza not literally your own eyes if that's fare to say?
Post reply on HN