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TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

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Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#301

Post by mcv »

crazygringo wrote: post #296

Good. We have something called "due process" in the US, and the attempted TikTok ban violates it. Due process is a bedrock of American law. It means government officials can't just "do what they want" and make arbitrary decisions with specific targets -- which is exactly what the TikTok ban is. You want to ban TikTok? Great, you need a specific law from Congress that outlines under what circumstances companies may be…

Exactly. As far as I'm aware, TikTok is pretty much malware, meant to collect every single possible piece of information it can get access to on your phone, so I would recommend everybody to avoid it, and I'm not opposed to a ban at all.

What matters is the way it's banned. And why. And the current process feels every bit as wrong as TikTok itself.

What the US needs is proper data protection laws. And then it should enforce those laws equally against US and foreign companies. Just arbitrarily banning one thing because you realise that what you always allowed for US companies, is suddenly a problem when it's a Chinese company, is absolutely wrong.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#302

Post by justicezyx »

nafizh wrote: post #277
gampleman wrote: post #121

So if the problem is that TikTok is gathering too much invasive data on US citizens (and supposedly siphoning it to China), and their defence is basically "So what, it's legal and everyone else is doing it too!", then isn't the obvious solution making actual digital privacy legislation that would make such data vacuuming illegal? That would solve the problem and make the American market a fair playing field rather th…

How is it a fair playing field if US companies can't do business in China, and Chinese companies can do in US?

Most US firms can do business in China. Like Tesla, who even gets preferential treatment that were envied by anyone who ever did business in China (foreigner or not).

They just relinquish certain strong hold to a sovereign nation, like they have to host their data center inside China (both politically important, and economically beneficial). And they also risk their data being stolen (or so they claim).

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#303

Post by manquer »

crazygringo wrote: post #296

Good. We have something called "due process" in the US, and the attempted TikTok ban violates it. Due process is a bedrock of American law. It means government officials can't just "do what they want" and make arbitrary decisions with specific targets -- which is exactly what the TikTok ban is. You want to ban TikTok? Great, you need a specific law from Congress that outlines under what circumstances companies may be…

That ship has sailed long back. With the patriot act and other legislations in this area that gives enormous power to the executive , also the secretive FISA court which hardly rejects any warrant requests etc , there is no real due process when it concerns “national security” .

Congress can hardly control the three letter agencies violating amercian rights on a massive scale or blatantly lie under oath in testimony

Don’t think a foreign company is going to allowed to actually proceed with a suit involving national security as the administration is going ton claim

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#304

Post by zo1 »

mmrezaie wrote: post #256
bzb4 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no right to free speech in Europe, since for example many countries have laws against blasphemy.

Like where in Europe?

UK for starters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_and_Religious_Hatred_Ac...

Blasphemy laws have just been repackaged essentially under "anti hate speech" laws. They're palatable to the media and at the same time selectively-applicable which is ideal for population control.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#305

Post by lostmsu »

arcturus17 wrote: post #219
disgu wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You did not address the fundamental point which is that an Executive Order can be challenged in a Court of Law - it will be, in fact. > Do you think a decision by the CCP, Xi Jinping, Kim Jong-Un or Mohammad Bin Salman would be afforded the same level of guarantees? Yes, absolutely. It happens all the time. Those rulers use _the laws afforded to them_ to rule. It's completely wrong to suggest that they just do what…

You are absolutely delusional if you think dictatorships work under strict Rule of Law like democracies. This is basic middle school stuff - ideas that have been developed during centuries by the liberal tradition and even hark back to the Classical world - so I'm not going to bother debating it here. I will however leave some data, from the World Justice Project Rule of Law Index 2020 [1]. These indices measure how…

I don't think this matters in the question. In regards with US tech companies banned in China, all of them are banned for violating Chinese laws. If you believe there is a major exception to this, name it.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#306

Post by ausbah »

anonymousab wrote: post #254
La1n wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cause if they don't you can punish them according to the law. That's how laws work.

Which is what the US seems to be attempting to do. The president does, under the law, have fairly broad powers when it comes to foreign nations.

to single company? how about all the other platforms owned by Chinese companies? League of Legends or the like?

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#307

Post by _8j50 »

save_ferris wrote: post #282
_8j50 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-commercial transactions of information can't be regulated. US advertisers can be banned from doing business with tiktok but it is a free app. If someone in China called you and read out loud every byte in the tiktok app and you wrote it down in notepad and saved it,is that speech or commerce? It is speech in my opinion. They can regulate commerce but for software and crypto they can't regulate the transfer of inf…

> Non-commercial transactions of information can't be regulated Sure they can. Look at HIPAA, COPPA, government classification, etc. I could call a family member up at an intelligence agency and ask what kinds of stuff they're investigating, but they'd surely be committing a crime by sharing that information with me, regardless of whether or not money changed hands. The other counterargument to this is that ByteDance…

That's because you don't own the information in all those cases. Privileged information,patient information,etc... If you are the originator of the information it is your speech. Your spy buddies can't share information because it is privileged amd classified (not free speech).

I am not against banning bytedance's commercial activity. But, the reasoning needs to make it clear that the app is not banned, sharing the app is not illegal and what is restricted is bytedance's ability to engage in commerce. You can ban their commercial exploitation of information but you cannot ban the app itself or americans's ability to transmit information to them. You can revoke theie business license and ban commercial activity with them.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#308

Post by nouveaux »

crazygringo wrote: post #296

Good. We have something called "due process" in the US, and the attempted TikTok ban violates it. Due process is a bedrock of American law. It means government officials can't just "do what they want" and make arbitrary decisions with specific targets -- which is exactly what the TikTok ban is. You want to ban TikTok? Great, you need a specific law from Congress that outlines under what circumstances companies may be…

I am uninformed here. Isn't CFIUS due process? This started back in November 2019.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tiktok-cfius-exclusive/ex...

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#309

Post by sbmthakur »

rjtavares wrote: post #148
sbmthakur wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One difference between TikTok and other companies is that they are backed by an entity which has plans for global dominance and are not exactly aligned with American interests.

Facebook is a company that has plans for (and has achieved) global dominance and is not aligned with European interests. Boeing is a company backed by an entity which has plans for (and has achieved) global dominance and is increasingly not aligned with European interests. I know there's a huge difference between the US Government and the Chinese Government, but that difference is decreasing. And Facebook, well I sim…

I don't know how Facebook and Boeing are comparable to the entity I was talking about. These companies don't have an army under them, are not running indoctrination camps and are not in border disputes with numerous countries.

Re: TikTok to Sue U.S. over Ban

#310

Post by Aunche »

throw44532 wrote: post #294
nafizh wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a fair playing field if US companies can't do business in China, and Chinese companies can do in US?

They can. They just need to comply with China’s data and censorship laws. It’s why Microsoft and Apple are available in China.

Technically, that's true, but it never really works that way. Google had complied with their laws, but got hacked. Foreign websites will get shut down randomly without warning or explanation. Sometimes they'll get restored, but even then the damage is already done. iTunes is still banned in China.
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