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Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

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Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#301

Post by jackcosgrove »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209
eaandkw wrote: post #150

I have pretty much given up on everybody at this point. I have already pulled my kid from school and will not send them back. I am in a single income family and I am now working from home. All actions and purchases at this point are to help us to become more independant from the system. Society and government at large has shown itself to be unreliable and undependable. I am also making longer term plans to move out o…

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

I would argue that the high salaries in the software industry have siphoned technologists from other industries that make physical products. Some of that is intrinsic, since making stuff has smaller margins than pushing bytes. But a lot of it is hidebound business practices. For example, should a manager always make more money than their reports? In many industries the answer is yes, which is a rejection of supply and demand in favor of a social hierarchy. There is also incredible bloat in supervisory roles, again because of the artificial money and prestige. Some companies would seemingly prefer to slowly die than pay needed employees a market rate, market being a national market spanning industries (some skillsets are fungible like that).

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#302

Post by DenisM »

dvdhnt wrote: post #256
bpodgursky wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anti-charter sentiment is a union (teacher union) protecting itself. The left is along for the ride, because it's the same "tribe", but this is 100% driven by an organization protecting itself against competition.

Even if that is a cause, so? But the real issues revolve around a lack of oversight, small budgets, corruption, and exclusionary practices that hurt already marginalized groups. Edit: "your mask is slipping" isn't a productive characterization. What I meant was, your statement comes off as bias - "tribes", "the left", "protecting itself against competition" all scream pro-capitalist propaganda on a topic that, frankl…

>Also, your mask is slipping

What are you insinuating?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#303

Post by pdonis »

gruez wrote: post #267
pdonis wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also applies to senators There is no Electoral College for senators; they are elected by direct popular vote. > and to a small extent house of representatives Same comment.

>> Also applies to senators > There is no Electoral College for senators; they are elected by direct popular vote. That's irrelevant. The parent commenters says: >where the votes of certain states are much more valuable than others. How can you argue that this isn't the case when wyoming gets the same amount of senate votes as california?

See my response to not2b downthread.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#304

Post by mistermann »

not2b wrote: post #230
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

All of this is a consequence of ideologies that have become popular in the US both in politics and in business. Having government direct a mobilization is not acceptable. A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Having manufacturing capacity to make low-value products in large numbers in the US is bad business when poorer countries can do it for less. Having spare inventory is bad, because just-in-time man…

> Now, all of this could be turned around quickly with good leadership that could rally the country behind a cause, but we chose someone who...

Were all of these issues nonexistent under prior administrations?

Or, as for turning it around, are you asserting that Clinton both could have and would have done so? If so, how do you know this?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#305

Post by pantaloony »

nickff wrote: post #220
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

If you want an increase in mask supply, you have to either allow the pricing mechanism to do its job, or force people to make masks. Given the (very popular) laws against price gauging, it seems like the only viable option is to force some companies to manufacture more masks. Production capacity is available, but at a higher cost than is currently economical. All that being said, your second point seems correct to me…

You’re missing a whole world of how governments can get market actors to do things, unless you’re putting “incentives and guarantees” under “force people”. In fact that approach of using market actors to the benefit of the country used to fall under the umbrella of conservatism, in the distant past of 3ish decades ago.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#306

Post by DenisM »

jude- wrote: post #300
DenisM wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These seem to be the "real" reasons: 1) re-segregation 2) skimming[B] 3) de-unionization 4) benchmarking[A] 5) statism preference. The other declared reasons seemed unconvincing to me. [A] Benchmarking - competing schools provide parents with a direct comparison point, so it's much harder for a struggling public school to disclaim responsibility for some of their own problems. [B] Skimming - picking out the best-perf…

Charter schools in many jurisdictions can also expel underperforming or struggling kids, while public schools are obligated to enroll everyone regardless. I would be very skeptical of any charter school benchmarks.

Yeah, I was hoping "re-segregation" sort of covers it, but it seems not.

I will add "skimming" into the list, thanks for bringing this up.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#307

Post by lbotos »

not2b wrote: post #242
pdonis wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system you describe only applies to Presidential elections. The federal government is a lot more than just the President, and so are its problems.

The Senate is also broken (Wyoming with 500k == California with 39M people).

The Senate is designed to act as a counter balance to the house. The senate with equal representation per state, and the house with population based representation.

What do you mean by the Senate is broken?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#308

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

Kapura wrote: post #110
cheerlessbog wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does she work that pays $30k for an experienced teacher? Teacher pay sucks

She's in Colorado. The teachers' union agreed to a pay cut & freeze during the Bush financial crisis; pay had had only started to rise again a few years ago. This is somewhat of a digression, but the extremely low rate of teacher pay (for a job that requires a Master's degree) limits the pool of available teachers greatly. The people taking these jobs typically must have some other way of supporting their family; eit…

The average teacher salary in CO is north of $50k [1]. Is she living in a very rural, LCOL area?

[1]: https://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/04/16/interactive-map-teach....

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#310

Post by jshaqaw »

MereInterest wrote: post #268
seibelj wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the logic around the left's hatred of charters. Parents choose to send their kids there - if the existing public school was so good, why would they send them somewhere else? It's simply about choice, and sending your own kids to the best possible option. No one would ever deny their own children the best possible education available. It's so clearly about administrators and professionals over the n…

At best, charter schools are there to defund public education. At worst, they are outright embezzling of school funding. They are being pushed by Betsy Devos, whose record speaks against her. Her handling of the charter school system in Detroit led to it having the nationwide poorest reading and mathematics scores. In a lawsuit, charter school defenders argued that literacy is not a right.

Far too sweeping of a statement. "At their best" charter schools provide a laboratory for experimentation and alternative models of education which are impossible to implement within a rigid bureaucracy. In NYC we have many excellent progressive charter schools with massive waiting lists to get in. In many cases test scores are lower because these schools have chosen to emphasize real education over test preparation which unfortunately dominates bandwidth in many classrooms.
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