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Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

nytimes.com

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Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#301

Post by P_I_Staker »

koheripbal wrote: post #170
athrowaway69 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had other experiences. The friendships I had in AA were superficial. Once, when I was struggling and needed help and people to talk to, I was completely ignored by the people around me. They didn't want to help the struggling - just to have this toxic positivity that nothing is wrong. I later moved out of state. I came back to visit family, and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had re…

Like any random group of people, there will always be outliers. I have had nothing but positive experiences with these groups.

I wouldn't be so quick to call him an outlier. His experience is far from uncommon. You can find plenty of people who've had the same or other problems.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#302

Post by P_I_Staker »

toofy wrote: post #169
athrowaway69 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had other experiences. The friendships I had in AA were superficial. Once, when I was struggling and needed help and people to talk to, I was completely ignored by the people around me. They didn't want to help the struggling - just to have this toxic positivity that nothing is wrong. I later moved out of state. I came back to visit family, and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had re…

> ... and went back to a meeting to find out that there were rumors that I had relapsed after I moved and continued using until I was homeless. It was a drama fest. I obviously don’t have your unique and nuanced understanding of the situation, but this seems like a common occurrence with all humans when they lack information. In my experience when we don’t have information, our group tendencies lean towards filling g…

The relapsed part sure, but having a story that detailed is absurd. He stopped coming to our meeting? Must be homeless and turning tricks on corner... Absolutely ridiculous

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#303

Post by [deleted] »

apatters wrote: post #265
elixanchor wrote: post #115

recovering addict here. some words for those who may be struggling. i tried a number of things over many years (life coach, therapy, meditation retreats, ayahuasca, ibogaine, etc). i reached a bottom, and nothing i had tried really worked or stuck. kept relapsing after a few months of sobriety at most. ultimately it was going to AA that i largely credit to my successful transformation into a happy life of sobriety. i…

AA's 12 Steps use the word God four times. They also refer to "Him" three times, to a higher "Power," a "spiritual awakening," and prayer. Nearly every step has a reference to spirituality of some kind and most of them are laced with Christian undertones. More generally the idea behind the 12 steps is to place yourself in the hands of this higher power and allow it to guide you. Basically it requires a belief in pray…

[deleted]

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#304

Post by thulecitizen »

circlefavshape wrote: post #284
crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a recovering information addict, food addict, sex addict, and love addict. Doing the same behaviors in a mindful way instead of out of a desire to mask/numb/avoid matters. Also, I stopped counting my various abstinence stretches because it's not actionable information. I don't assess my recovery that way. I take a look at my needs and identify how I'm doing meeting them.

Love addict? Care to elaborate?

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/323590.Facing_Love_Addic...

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#305

Post by frumiousirc »

grabbalacious wrote: post #64

Outsider's uninformed opinion: if you attend AA then regardless of any official narrative or agenda this means you're spending important time with people who (a) used to drink, and (b) don't drink any more. Their example plus hearing what they've got to say seems like an excellent approach.

One wise ex drunk I know summed up his steps: 1) Action. 2) Group.

The "brand name" of the group is not so relevant.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#306

Post by thulecitizen »

prawn wrote: post #267
thulecitizen wrote: post #259

Dear Dang, what does your admin toolset look like? Have you written about that anywhere? I'm curious, is this post of yours at the top because it has the most upvotes, or because you are pinning it here?

I've always assumed that some top level posts are elevated based on the quality/upvotes of their best replies.

Yeah I think it works like that too.

Yet at the same time I think dang has the ability to move any post up or down/re-prioritizing or re-ranking based on his intellect, instead of a natural, organic ranking. It becomes a forced therapy session by dang. We also cannot know if this happens, since those moves would be invisible to everyone else on the site (except to other admins/moderators). I do not think it’s far fetched to think he has this power, seeing as karma scores are conveniently hidden for all posts (except for the author of each individual post).

I’m a little disturbed that dang seems to ‘steer’ conversations based on his own interests. There’s a bunch of smart people here and I don’t understand why he goes past his role as administrator to interject into certain threads. It’s ‘bad hosting’ in my eyes.

With my questions I’m trying to understand what the rules of the game are, to see whether I like them or not and whether I want to keep playing (engaging on HN).

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#307

Post by Broken_Hippo »

NAaddict167 wrote: post #229
craftyguy wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I moved, the meetings I encountered were extremely hostile to atheists. That's unfortunate, and mostly in line with other experiences I've heard from friends, etc. AA seems like just another bullshit Christian recruitment/retention facility, that sometimes accidentally helps people who buy into it recover from addiction. Too bad.

My current sponsor’s higher power was once an imaginary vagina. It spoke to him and everything. Try and fit that in the Christianity column.

I shouldn't have to make up a higher power and do anything with that imaginary construct to make it through the steps of a sobriety program, though. The fact that I'd have to lie about it in the first place is the issue - it doesn't matter if other people's higher power is something non-christian or not. I cannot just be myself.

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#308

Post by dang »

thulecitizen wrote: post #259

Dear Dang, what does your admin toolset look like? Have you written about that anywhere? I'm curious, is this post of yours at the top because it has the most upvotes, or because you are pinning it here?

When I post a procedural comment about a thread, we sometimes pin it to the top. Usually it's about trying to dampen flamewars. In this case it was in the hope of getting the thread more on topic, but that's less common.

That post is no longer pinned. It's still at the top of the thread because of upvotes. Normally we'd downweight it now, but https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22552120 is so good that I don't want it to sink along with it.

(I've detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22551842)

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#309

Post by [deleted] »

apatters wrote: post #265
elixanchor wrote: post #115

recovering addict here. some words for those who may be struggling. i tried a number of things over many years (life coach, therapy, meditation retreats, ayahuasca, ibogaine, etc). i reached a bottom, and nothing i had tried really worked or stuck. kept relapsing after a few months of sobriety at most. ultimately it was going to AA that i largely credit to my successful transformation into a happy life of sobriety. i…

AA's 12 Steps use the word God four times. They also refer to "Him" three times, to a higher "Power," a "spiritual awakening," and prayer. Nearly every step has a reference to spirituality of some kind and most of them are laced with Christian undertones. More generally the idea behind the 12 steps is to place yourself in the hands of this higher power and allow it to guide you. Basically it requires a belief in pray…

[deleted]

Re: Alcoholics Anonymous vs. other approaches: the evidence is now in

#310

Post by prawn »

thulecitizen wrote: post #306
prawn wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always assumed that some top level posts are elevated based on the quality/upvotes of their best replies.

Yeah I think it works like that too. Yet at the same time I think dang has the ability to move any post up or down/re-prioritizing or re-ranking based on his intellect, instead of a natural, organic ranking. It becomes a forced therapy session by dang. We also cannot know if this happens, since those moves would be invisible to everyone else on the site (except to other admins/moderators). I do not think it’s far fet…

I think he does a great job and admire his impartiality.
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