State of JavaScript 2019 • Hacker News Board

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#301

Post by jermaustin1 » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:00 PM UTC

mando75 wrote: post #299

jermaustin1 wrote: post #292

How do 3.6% of respondents have more than 20 years of experience in TypeScript? And 21.7% have more than 10 years? EDIT - They don't. They have 10+ years using JavaScript TypeScript was released in 2012, sure there are early adopters and beta users, but I seriously doubt that nearly 22% of the people using TypeScript prior to it being released.

I believe the question you are referring to is asking what general level of experience TypeScript developers have. I too was a bit taken aback when I saw that. I had to reread the question. They should have done a better job making that clear in the chart for people just skimming the data. https://2019.stateofjs.com/javascript-flavors/#javascript_fl...

I completely missed that last sentence I guess.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#302

Post by jillesvangurp » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #219

jillesvangurp wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For developers coming from other languages, typescript and the tool support in VS Code is what makes frontend engineering tolerable these days. A big difference with just a few years ago. I insist on it in most projects I'm responsible for. I see no good technical reasons not to use it at this point.

I mean, if you really want to, you can configure it to be just JS with .ts file extensions :P

Well, strict mode is a thing of course. But yes definitely have seen a bit too much code with the any type.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#304

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #294

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Svelte is just a web framework, React is a software framework. Then there's the missing Typescript support... That's what happens when you create your own template syntax...again. I'll continue to use React so I can simply use Typescript for my components, not some random syntax. My styles are typed, my components are typed, my state is typed. Why would I ever go back?

> That's what happens when you create your own template syntax...again. > I'll continue to use React React also created it's own syntax. Svelte's syntax looks more similar to preceding work than React's syntax did.

JSX is syntactic sugar for function calls, but they are still just JS functions. You don't even have to use JSX.

Templates are 5 steps backwards, Svelte overall is a leap backwards.

Familiarity != simplicity.

The only thing I'd use Svelte for is for simple websites, but oh no you can't because it requires JS...

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#305

Post by ng12 » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

Bahamut wrote: post #71

samspenc wrote: post #61

I'm surprised to see Angular drop in ratings and rank so poorly compared to React. I personally prefer Angular myself because it's (a) opiniated and (b) has everything included (HTTP REST calls, Material UI, etc). Just curious why so many people prefer React and mark it so positively.

It surprises me too personally - the testing experience is worlds better, better built in modules than what you get in the React ecosystem (especially routing, http request layer, forms, testing, etc.), and opinionation that helps improve the overall experience of working with it. I miss my time with Angular sometimes - my only gripes is TypeScript being limiting with regard to function composition, and creating a co…

I think it's the opposite. Angular1 was obviously dead on it's feet, and I respect Angular2 for admitting that. If anything I wish they had gone further and cleaned up some of the other smells around the Angular ecosystem.

My real problem with Angular is it's not great for either beginners or experts. There's so much boilerplate and Angular concepts a beginner needs to learn to use the framework well and for experienced developers that stuff tends to get in your way.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#306

Post by nailer » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #304

nailer wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's what happens when you create your own template syntax...again. > I'll continue to use React React also created it's own syntax. Svelte's syntax looks more similar to preceding work than React's syntax did.

JSX is syntactic sugar for function calls, but they are still just JS functions. You don't even have to use JSX. Templates are 5 steps backwards, Svelte overall is a leap backwards. Familiarity != simplicity. The only thing I'd use Svelte for is for simple websites, but oh no you can't because it requires JS...

It seems like you're splitting hairs. React had a new syntax. Svelte has a new syntax too, albeit a familiar one.

You can call Svelte's syntax 'templates' if you want, but if you do, you should call JSX a 'template' syntax too. You seem to be saying templates are bad, which is fine, but a vdom and a compiler are both sufficiently different from, say, mustache templates and you seem to be favoring React for no technical reason.

> Familiarity != simplicity.

Sure. But you literally just said:

> That's what happens when you create your own template syntax...again.

Which seems to indicate you preferred familiarity.

I'm not really sure what your argument is except pointing out that you prefer React. OK.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#307

Post by mb7733 » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

erokar wrote: post #272

bradchris wrote: post #95

Wow, just learned of Svelte from this. After reading their explanatory blog post and coming upon this blurb: That all changed with the advent of hooks [React and Vue], which handle state in a very different fashion. Many frameworks started experimenting with their own implementations of hooks, but we quickly concluded it wasn't a direction we wanted to go in ... We can just use the language. Updating some count value…

Svelte seems promising. I think it's a natural evolution from what I think is an over focus on FP and purity in React, to a more natural and intuitive DX without significant drawbacks. Svelte does have an irritating wart IMO, citing their tutorial: Because Svelte's reactivity is triggered by assignments, using array methods like push and splice won't automatically cause updates. So for reference types that are mutate…

To be fair, React has the same "wart". React is not guaranteed to work properly if you do:

  numbers = this.state.numbers;
  numbers.push(numbers.length + 1);
  this.setState({ numbers: numbers });

React docs here: https://reactjs.org/tutorial/tutorial.html#why-immutability-...

There's no good way around it without doing deep equality checks everywhere which is not reasonable.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#308

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #306

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JSX is syntactic sugar for function calls, but they are still just JS functions. You don't even have to use JSX. Templates are 5 steps backwards, Svelte overall is a leap backwards. Familiarity != simplicity. The only thing I'd use Svelte for is for simple websites, but oh no you can't because it requires JS...

It seems like you're splitting hairs. React had a new syntax. Svelte has a new syntax too, albeit a familiar one. You can call Svelte's syntax 'templates' if you want, but if you do, you should call JSX a 'template' syntax too. You seem to be saying templates are bad, which is fine, but a vdom and a compiler are both sufficiently different from, say, mustache templates and you seem to be favoring React for no technic…

JSX is not a template syntax. JSX is entirely optional, it's just syntactic sugar for function calls.

JSX is simply a way to write JavaScript that looks like HTML.

I know when I develop in React there's no magic. I know JSX are just functions, everything else in the code is as is.

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#309

Post by arxpoetica » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 6:08 PM UTC

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #308

nailer wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you're splitting hairs. React had a new syntax. Svelte has a new syntax too, albeit a familiar one. You can call Svelte's syntax 'templates' if you want, but if you do, you should call JSX a 'template' syntax too. You seem to be saying templates are bad, which is fine, but a vdom and a compiler are both sufficiently different from, say, mustache templates and you seem to be favoring React for no technic…

JSX is not a template syntax. JSX is entirely optional, it's just syntactic sugar for function calls. JSX is simply a way to write JavaScript that looks like HTML. I know when I develop in React there's no magic. I know JSX are just functions, everything else in the code is as is.

> I know when I develop in React there's no magic.

That's the biggest misstatement of the day. ️ We understand that you prefer React, but this is utter...

Re: State of JavaScript 2019

#310

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

arxpoetica wrote: post #309

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JSX is not a template syntax. JSX is entirely optional, it's just syntactic sugar for function calls. JSX is simply a way to write JavaScript that looks like HTML. I know when I develop in React there's no magic. I know JSX are just functions, everything else in the code is as is.

> I know when I develop in React there's no magic. That's the biggest misstatement of the day. ️ We understand that you prefer React, but this is utter...

I honestly don't care what you think, I explained my position.

I'll continue to use the one framework that supports typing styles, components, and state.

I'll continue to use the one framework that can bridge to every major desktop and mobile OS's native UI.

I'll continue to use the one framework backed by both Facebook and Microsoft.

I'll continue to use simple JS functions to build every part of my app.

You can use Svelte, lol.

Oh and don't use "we", you're one person.