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Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

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Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the only person who is saying that is so (with a lot of people disagreeing) is someone who “work[s] at Oracle on VM research”

Well, I agree, and I don't work at Oracle. So? Any other conspiracy theories?

Care to post benchmarks?

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eclipse was slow and had the usual non native Java smell that all cross platform GUIs have - especially on computers back then. But even now, Eclipse is sluggish compared to Visual Studio.

> Eclipse was slow and had the usual non native Java smell that all cross platform GUIs have Actually Eclipse used a native GUI toolkit (Standard Widget Toolkit), backed by native widgets plus a few custom draw ones (like 100% native apps also resort to for custom stuff). So, if it smelled "non Native", it wasn't because of Java.

And I guess neither were the performance penalties of both Java and the Interop layer compared to native C++ code?

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#303
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because development that happened in 1994 is really relevant today. How will these languages ever catch up with innovations like JavaBeans, Java Server Pages, and Java Server Faces?

They are far from catching up on compilation, GC and low-overhead observability technology. Those developments didn't happen in 1994; they have been happening continuously over the past 25 year (e.g., in the past few years we've seen ZGC, JFR and Graal), where Java is still far ahead of the pack.

Benchmarks?

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#304

If I understand correctly, OpenJDK is licensed under GPL with classpath exception - and the only thing that is preventing openjdk from being unusable in any commercial settings is a few lines of legalese, controlled by Oracle, on handful of source files in various packages. If Oracle removes that classpath exception legalese in some upcoming jdk version from these source files (which they are fully in control of), op…

Oracle is not letting them test builds with the Technology Compatibility Kit (TCK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_Compatibility_Kit), which under Sun probably killed the Apache Harmony project. There are alternatives like Amazon's Corretto and Azul's Zulu.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hand up uh not as experienced as most people on HN, what's the hate for c#? I went from vb6 to VB.net then c# and while I fully admit I'm a casual coder, i haven't had an issue (with what I do, which is voice to string primarily) so far. Is there something better for this I perhaps should look into?

To the downvoters. Really? I'm literally asking why here, while my karma is really a non issue, I'm wondering why you would down vote an honest question. (Thanks again to the people who gave me informative posts, I have some things to research, just need to find the time!)

your comment is back in the black now, so I'd say generally don't worry about these things. A lot of people reflexively downvote stuff, but in many cases this is correct within 12h or so. That's been my experience most of the time, at least.

Complaining about it is often brutally punished by more downvotes though, so beware!

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#306

If I understand correctly, OpenJDK is licensed under GPL with classpath exception - and the only thing that is preventing openjdk from being unusable in any commercial settings is a few lines of legalese, controlled by Oracle, on handful of source files in various packages. If Oracle removes that classpath exception legalese in some upcoming jdk version from these source files (which they are fully in control of), op…

The JDK would promptly be forked from the last-covered commit, presumably by a coalition of Amazon, Azul, IBM, Red Hat, SAP, Google, Microsoft (amazing times we live in) and Pivotal amongst others. What enterprise customers want is certainty . Given the choice between "Java by Oracle" and "Basically still Java by Literally Every Other Enterprise Software Vendor", they will pick the latter in a heartbeat. It would be…

Wouldn't this run into the issues behind the Google-Oracle lawsuit around the Android runtime?

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#307
post #158

Dumb question... Wouldn't it be possible to fork the namespace to something like javax -> jawax (or java->borneo as someone suggested) and then patch the JVM to alias the javax package to the would-be jawax package (or borneox or whatever) ?

The other option is a maven plugin that lets you rename packages and then someone posts a list of rules on a StackOverflow question for renaming the new namespaces to the old ones: that way, no JDK distributor is distributing software that understands the old package names.

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#308
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the hate around C# stems from Ballmer-era interoperability blocks, specifically some hot / cold dithering on the work Mono was doing to make it truly cross-platform.

Hmm I hadn't really considered cross-platform(as I mentioned above aside from a forced forey into Mac ATM dur to work, I've always been windows). I'm thinking perhaps I should take some primers on non windows coding, and the advantages there of. Anyone have any good beginners links (note I'm fairly adept at Java, .net, vb and such, just trying to find a good place - and reason - to learn something cross platform). Pr…

Perhaps the biggest 'bang for your buck' would be Javascript or Python. The former because it's everywhere, and the latter because it's almost everywhere and probably more pleasant than the former. And possibly better if you're time-constrained, because you could pick one of the areas where it's a staple.

Either way, both are quite un-windows, and un-corporate, but used all over the place. I'm suggesting them because, as someone who hasn't been part of any 'corporate' ecosystem since Delphi (to the point where even Java is 'too corporate'), I've been meaning to dip into the 'less sexy' world of Java/Delphi/C#/.Net/VB just to find out what it's like.

I'd very much like to hear your thoughts if you decide to check out this side of the fence, so by all means do so and write a blog post about it (or send me an email and perhaps we could write a dual-author post about our respective experiences someday!).

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#309
post #280
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Poland and Hungary have found a loophole allowing them to ignore EU rules and sanctions while still profiting from subsidies and market access AFAIK this was tit-for-tat: HU & PL closed/sold-off their industry in favor of WEU in exchange for subsidies. Removing these subsidies for any reason would violate the main economic agreement between them and EU. Mind you, there is no significant locally grown industry in th…

Adding to that: one of the fundamental EU rules was freedom to do bussiness anywhere in EU. That worked in favor of Western countries which had their corporations opening offices in Poland, and making huge profits here. After some time Poland found some niches for itself, e.g. Polish transportation companies dominate EU market in truck freight. What was the EU response to that? They recently passed change in labor la…

What evidence do you have that the labor laws are a response to polish domination of freight, or that those laws would would somehow only cause polish carriers to become unprofitable?

Re: Negotiations Failed: How Oracle Killed Java EE

#310
post #309
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding to that: one of the fundamental EU rules was freedom to do bussiness anywhere in EU. That worked in favor of Western countries which had their corporations opening offices in Poland, and making huge profits here. After some time Poland found some niches for itself, e.g. Polish transportation companies dominate EU market in truck freight. What was the EU response to that? They recently passed change in labor la…

What evidence do you have that the labor laws are a response to polish domination of freight, or that those laws would would somehow only cause polish carriers to become unprofitable?

It was explicitly stated by French president Macron, that the goal is to end Polish dominance in truck freight :)

Basically the law change is this:

Now, if you are Polish truck driver employed in Poland, you are subject to Polish tax and labor codes, including things like tax rate, minimum wage, etc. What France wants (and what was passed, but is not in effect yet) is that if said truck driver crosses the border of another country (say, France) he should be subject to that country tax and labor code. Which is riddiculous, because the driver does not change his tax residence, he just enters France for a few days it takes to make a delivery, and then comes back to Poland.

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