America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#301

Post by mschuster91 » Sat, May 04, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #297

mschuster91 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt this. Even as a German I regularly get healthcare gofundme's in my twitter feed. HN frontpage regularly has horror stories about billing, including "out of network" hospitals in emergencies. There is no way one can build up savings to shoulder such shit, much less are savings to be used for medical issues!

As an American currently working with healthcare data, I’m familiar with the abundant failings of the US healthcare system. But I think it’s a mistake to think that it’s completely unavoidable and take a fatalistic attitude and feel like you always have a sword hanging over your head. As far as I can tell, it’s avoidable, but you need to get decent insurance before you’re sick, and to save up money to help you ride o…

> Fortunately, it seems like people are getting sick of this, and we're getting closer to getting that. I just wouldn't take the attitude that the world is totally fucked, so you should live for today.

That depends if the US gets another four years of Trump, or a repeat of the final Obama years with a sane President blocked by a Republican-dominated congress.

I would not be so certain that the outcome of the 2020 election is a Democrat president, a Democrat controlled House and a Democrat controlled Senate - and even if all three end up in Democrat hands (which I hope for!) those in power should rather not be bought off by the insurance industry.

To make it worse, even if all stars align and all of this happens, there still remains the problem of exploding rents preventing anyone who rents (=99% of the young population) to make meaningful savings or retirement contributions, and to top that one off student loans also are in dire need of reform and hell will freeze over before the US will even consider the German model of tax-funded world class universities.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#302

Post by andrekandre » Sat, May 04, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #146

krilly wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it wrong to hurt other people for your benefit? If you are an alien learning about humans, you should start with some children's books. I think you're missing some pretty fundamental knowledge here

Who is a founder necessarily hurting when they sell their company to a PE firm? What I'm hearing you say is that once a founder starts a business and hires a single employee they must operate that company until death. That seems like a ridiculous position to me and perhaps you're missing some fundamental knowledge on life. If that were somehow codified to law, I would've never started a business.

one could also sell their company to the employees[1]; there are many alternatives that doesn’t involve “liquidation” and “selling out”.

[1] http://www.americanbusinessmag.com/2012/03/selling-your-busi...

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#303

Post by jpetso » Sun, May 05, 2019, 5:16 AM UTC

ericd wrote: post #261

iamnothere wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A big part of life is spreading your genes and making sure that your offspring are well set up to continue spreading your genes. According to some. Or, you can opt out of this and enjoy your life anyway. It's troubling to see so many people in this thread concerned with "winning" at life. In the end we all die, then it's game over. Any high score is quickly forgotten. Life is brief, treasure it while you still draw…

The main drive/purpose of life is to continue and spread itself, that’s just fundamental biology. You’re free to opt out of that and define your own goals (it sounds like enjoying yourself is your goal), but without another generation to pass it on to, everything that every human has ever done will have been pointless, because the purpose of most of what we do is to help humans. And what we collectively leave them wi…

As long as enough people reproduce around the world, there is another generation to pass it on to. Someday in the future, there may be a time where not enough children are born. Right now though, the global population is still growing and we're in more danger of overpopulation than underpopulation.

If I base my thinking on actual numbers rather than the theoretical principle, and in addition I stop worrying about my "score", then I can just focus on the actual stated goal, helping humans. When I'm dead, I'm gone. Them remembering me doesn't do shit for my soulless remains.

I might as well do something good for people because I care about people doing well, not because I want people to care about me even after I'm gone.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#304

Post by taksintikk » Sun, May 05, 2019, 6:27 AM UTC

Thoughts and prayers

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#305

Post by nickelcitymario » Mon, May 06, 2019, 11:53 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #274

perl4ever wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you want to imagine we are all born with a 'debt' then you should also assume we are born with an 'asset'. They should be workign to put that on paper faster than the debt." If you take your salary and divide it by a reasonable interest rate, then you get the value of yourself as an asset, or the equivalent amount of capital you would need not to work. It is a large amount if you choose a realistic interest rate.…

Maybe I didn't emphasis it enough; the key part is on the second line where I said "taking on debt to fund a lifestyle". I spun a off topic; nickelcitymario's original scenario riled me up. It compared someone with a steady income to someone without an income and concluded that the person with an income had a financial edge because they had debts - that isn't right, the person with the income is ahead because they ha…

Didn’t notice this conversation take off.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t saying Marc was better off because of debt. I was saying he was better off despite having debt. I was responding to the specific idea that Americans are poorer than people in other countries because they have more debt. My point was it’s entirely possible (and common) to be better off despite having a negative net worth.

Others spoke to this better than me, though, when discussing cash flow and the like...

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#306

Post by irrational » Mon, May 06, 2019, 1:11 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #267

irrational wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tell this to my college age kids. One of them is off touring Europe right now. I asked her how she is paying for it (and pointed out that I've never been to Europe because I can't afford it). She says she is going into debt to do it, but it is okay because experiences are more important than money. She is studying anthropology and non-profit management. I've pointed out that there aren't very well paying jobs with…

How is she planning on living afterwards with debt and no earnings potential? If it’s to rely on you, you might want to disabuse her of that notion so that she starts taking life a bit more seriously.

Nah, we tell them from the time they are young that we will help them with the first year of college and after that they are on their own. They know that we are serious so none of them have ever asked for help after the first year of college.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#307

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Mon, May 06, 2019, 1:11 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #260

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes that in some way effort ends up being related to your bank balance.

It’s at least somewhat related, all else being equal...

> all else being equal

Let's be honest though - it never is.

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#308

Post by WorldMaker » Mon, May 06, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #292

dingaling wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> buy a broad-based stock fund and forget about it The stock fund is a product designed by a third-party to make money for them, which was the poster's point about you not being in control of your pension in that case.

In my 401K, I have access to FXAIX (broad-based, S&P 500 fund), for which I pay 1.5 bpp of fees (0.00015 of AUM). If I had a million dollars in my 401(k)'s FXAIX (I don't of course), that would come to $150 in fund fees annually. If I wanted exposure to a broader index of mid-cap stocks, I have FSMAX (Fidelity Extended Market Index), at 4.5bpp (0.00045 of AUM). $1MM in that fund would cost me $450 annually. As I get…

But circling back to the point from above in the conversation: a broad index fund is still delegating moral authority to the index. How do you lodge a complaint with any company in that index? Do you have any power to voice an opinion against a leveraged buyout? You are not a shareholder of that company, you are a shareholder in an index fund that holds that company. You've delegated whatever possible votes you may have to Fidelity or Vanguard. Do they really have your moral and ethical priorities at heart? Can they?

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#309

Post by WorldMaker » Mon, May 06, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #264

WorldMaker wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This doesn't get mentioned often enough when talking about the "1-percenters" and the wealth gap in Western countries, i.e. that most of the capital behind all of the current economic and social system is directly or indirectly held by part of the general populace itself. I think the keyword there is indirectly . It's still easy to blame the 1-percenters for the proportional lion's share of the blame when the major…

There are good 401ks and bad 401ks. Many of them offer Vanguard funds, which have almost non-existent fees. And you’re doing it completely wrong if it’s as much work as you’re describing. Pensions are often formed with unsustainably optimistic assumptions, and many of them will be insolvent at some point in the future. The temptation to mortgage the future for the benefit of the present is too tempting for people. Pe…

It's a full time job if you want moral/ethical responsibility and/or voting power, for instance to voice an opinion on something like leveraged buy out. Index funds are great, but you are delegating all moral/ethical responsibility and voting power to Vanguard (or Fidelity or whoever else runs the fund).

Re: America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery

#310

Post by malandrew » Mon, May 06, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

iamnothere wrote: post #220

malandrew wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you died rich and have a family to leave the wealth to and the state isn't set up to steal your wealth by taxing you a second time, you've won at life. A big part of life is spreading your genes and making sure that your offspring are well set up to continue spreading your genes. This either requires heirs and wealth at death or at least making sure you transfer wealth to your heirs before you die.

> A big part of life is spreading your genes and making sure that your offspring are well set up to continue spreading your genes. According to some. Or, you can opt out of this and enjoy your life anyway. It's troubling to see so many people in this thread concerned with "winning" at life. In the end we all die, then it's game over. Any high score is quickly forgotten. Life is brief, treasure it while you still draw…

> Or, you can opt out of this and enjoy your life anyway.

The only reason the "enjoy your life" option is even on the table is because someone selflessly did the work of wealth building and society building that makes it possible for us to have the option of a life of leisure today.

When you die, it's not game over. If that were the case, you wouldn't even exist because it was once game over for all your ancestors, yet here you are enjoying your life.

Culturally, it's a tragedy that we've done an awful job communicating the importance of leaving a legacy for your offspring that enables them to enjoy life like we have. This long chain of people enjoying life only works if we propagate this message.