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Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

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Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#301

Post by adrianmonk »

moksha256 wrote: post #134

Didn't Google have messaging figured out with Google Talk? Everyone was on Gmail all day (as many still are) and people actually used it. Then they let it wither, came out with Hangouts, and it's been a downhill train wreck from there. Google Talk had the potential of being one of the biggest messengers in the world...they own Gmail and Android (!!!!!). Are you kidding me? There's really no good reason for them NOT t…

> Everyone was on Gmail all day

Not everyone is on Gmail. There a untold millions of users who aren't interested in creating a Gmail account. Those users will never be reached with any "just use your Gmail account" strategy.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#302

Post by rhizome »

oh_sigh wrote: post #300
rhizome wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a wonder that Googlers bother to maintain any existing products at all. My understanding is that not everybody there knows where the corporate ladders are. If you don't (yet) know the terms of promotion at the GOOG, you'll be happy to knock out bugs and tweaks day in and day out. You're a Googler!

The ladders and breakdown of what is required at each position are well known and talked about frequently, especially around performance review time. If you're a googler and don't know what's on your ladder you aren't paying attention

So everybody onboards with the knowledge that launching new stuff is the only way to get promoted? Because that's Google's engineering reputation out here on the street.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#303

Post by hueving »

blibble wrote: post #180
vetinari wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's another message that may or may not be lost, if it is checked at all. I've got my lesson about SMS reliability few years ago: I've bought a bus ticket via SMS, it was never delivered, but I got charged for it and the operator claimed that it was sent, when disputed. Except I've never received it, and couldn't ride the bus without it.

> That's another message that may or may not be lost, if it is checked at all. that's a general problem with acknowledgements and is not specific to SMS TCP is exactly the same

But tcp detects this and recovers or explicitly kills the connection.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#305

Post by arbie »

cthalupa wrote: post #247
what_ever wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the people here are in a bubble. There are billions of people in the 3rd world countries who are now coming online and they will never have a GMail account in their life. But they will have a Facebook account and they will have Whatsapp. So many of my relatives started using internet after Jio made it so cheap and none of them use Hangouts, Allo, GMail to communicate. But everyone is on Whatsapp and everyone…

None of that disproves his point. Google Talk could have been WhatsApp, very easily. They were in a position to make it happen before WhatsApp had even started development - Google Talk had enjoyed a meteoric rise and dominance over the messaging market for 4 years before WhatsApp came out, and it took WhatsApp quite a bit of time past 2009 to gain the steam it did. The fact that they failed to capitalize on it is wh…

Exactly. GMail did not have to be the only way to access Talk. It could have allowed parallel identity schemes easily for phone-number based login.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#306

Post by Zigurd »

If it is RCS, it will be interoperable messaging, which is something the world needs. But I rely on Hangouts and the fact that I can have calls to my Google Voice number ring as a Hangouts voice call. I hope there is a reasonable migration path that does not force me to give up important capabilities.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#307

Post by jayd16 »

SamWhited wrote: post #291
jayd16 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pretty simple explanation. Google talk was XMPP which is just not a good mobile protocol.

What makes you say it's not a good mobile protocol? It had some problems in the early 2000s on mobile, but these days it has stream management similar to TCPs and XML compresses very well. As I mentioned in another comment, there are people running it over very low bandwidth HF radio, if it works well there it works well over phones, but I'd be curious to see why people still think otherwise. (Google Talk, naturally,…

What service is using it at scale these days? I can't really think of a popular user. After a certain point it just becomes a headache.

When I was working with ejabberd clusters servicing mobile clients it worked but I've had a lot less pain just using a custom protocol over websockets. My personal experience also seems to be mirrored throughout the industry as all the big players eventually move away from xmpp.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#308

Post by 18pfsmt »

oh_sigh wrote: post #300
rhizome wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a wonder that Googlers bother to maintain any existing products at all. My understanding is that not everybody there knows where the corporate ladders are. If you don't (yet) know the terms of promotion at the GOOG, you'll be happy to knock out bugs and tweaks day in and day out. You're a Googler!

The ladders and breakdown of what is required at each position are well known and talked about frequently, especially around performance review time. If you're a googler and don't know what's on your ladder you aren't paying attention

I don't have any Google experience, but from what I've gathered over the years, there are always unwritten rules. Not everyone follows the spec. Often times, the spec even seems intentionally incomplete in retrospect.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#309

Post by balladeer »

rm999 wrote: post #185
moksha256 wrote: post #134

Didn't Google have messaging figured out with Google Talk? Everyone was on Gmail all day (as many still are) and people actually used it. Then they let it wither, came out with Hangouts, and it's been a downhill train wreck from there. Google Talk had the potential of being one of the biggest messengers in the world...they own Gmail and Android (!!!!!). Are you kidding me? There's really no good reason for them NOT t…

Google dominated non-SMS chat in the late 2000s/early 2010s. I don't think they realized how insanely valuable that was - they were basically sitting on the future of communication. All they had to do was sit back and let network effects build their monopoly (with some more tech build-out and straightforward marketing in international markets). Instead, they myopically saw Facebook as a threat and started one of the…

In India WhatsApp, now, is not a gold standard of online communication but it is pretty much the only mode of communication largely. I don't about other places, but at least here - people are not going to Google new "Chat" or Hangout anytime soon. Even Facebook chat is slowly losing out to WhatsApp and I don't think Facebook minds it. In fact they saw it coming and bought the app for that record price.

The reason I jumped out of Google ecosystem is, as you have mentioned, they forced me into closed ecosystems and I remained there for sometime but then the tools offered to me in the form of app, UI, and interfaces were beyond pathetic so I was out. So were my friends, family, relatives, and other acquaintances.

Orkut > Buzz > Wave > Chat > etc they did it one after another and they are still doing it. I mean you would think they would learn at some point.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#310

Post by [deleted] »

sunstone wrote: post #262
rm999 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google dominated non-SMS chat in the late 2000s/early 2010s. I don't think they realized how insanely valuable that was - they were basically sitting on the future of communication. All they had to do was sit back and let network effects build their monopoly (with some more tech build-out and straightforward marketing in international markets). Instead, they myopically saw Facebook as a threat and started one of the…

Sometimes doing nothing is the best strategy but it's hard to get promoted that way.

[deleted]
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