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Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

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Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#291

Post by SamWhited »

jayd16 wrote: post #177
moksha256 wrote: post #134

Didn't Google have messaging figured out with Google Talk? Everyone was on Gmail all day (as many still are) and people actually used it. Then they let it wither, came out with Hangouts, and it's been a downhill train wreck from there. Google Talk had the potential of being one of the biggest messengers in the world...they own Gmail and Android (!!!!!). Are you kidding me? There's really no good reason for them NOT t…

It's a pretty simple explanation. Google talk was XMPP which is just not a good mobile protocol.

What makes you say it's not a good mobile protocol? It had some problems in the early 2000s on mobile, but these days it has stream management similar to TCPs and XML compresses very well. As I mentioned in another comment, there are people running it over very low bandwidth HF radio, if it works well there it works well over phones, but I'd be curious to see why people still think otherwise. (Google Talk, naturally, never did implement any of the parts that make it good on mobile, just lilke they refused to do TLS on server to server connections, so note that I'm not arguing that Google Talk was good on mobile, just that if they'd worked on it a bit it could have been)

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#292

Post by SamWhited »

stephenr wrote: post #277
tallanvor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose if their phone is turned off outside cell coverage long enough then yes, they won't get it, but the rest of it isn't really an issue I've had to deal with. And with carriers determining RCS functionality, I'm not sure I see how having your laptop but not your phone is likely to make a real difference.

My point was to compare to something not controlled by people who for their own financial gain , push the idea that a phone is the only way to communicate. Xmpp, iMessage, etc are just data over an ip network - no inherit tie to a mobile phone and its network. So if I'm out of cell coverage, or my phone is flat, or whatever - I can get iMessage/XMPP/whatever messages on my laptop or iPad or whatever other device I ha…

I've been using jmp.chat recently for this (SMS sent over XMPP and phone calls via SIP). I actually liked it so much I ported my old number and got a data only plan, now I can launch Dino or something and get SMS on my desktop. I really wish one of the big carriers would embrace something like this.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#293

Post by nevir »

wetpaws wrote: post #269
sunstone wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes doing nothing is the best strategy but it's hard to get promoted that way.

Totally agree. This is something a lot of people miss. IT culture in general and Google especially puts too much pressure on engineers to re-invent the wheel to get better visibility and promotions.

When the primary thing you're evaluated for is "impact", it's a wonder that Googlers bother to maintain any existing products at all.

(Plenty do out of love for the product/customers/etc, but man it's soul crushing to not be recognized for it)

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#294

Post by SamWhited »

owaislone wrote: post #282
selectodude wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage

Is iMessage XMPP like open protocol?

iMessage is XMPP isn't it (although a somewhat outdated version of the protocol)? It was the last time I checked, but I don't have a device capable of running it so that was a while ago. If it's not anymore I'd be curious to know what they replaced it with.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#295

Post by avip »

SubNoize wrote: post #107
elvirs wrote: post #94

Its shocking how Google is embarrassing itself with these incompatible chat apps released one after another and abandoned right after the release. GTalk Gmail Chat Google Voice Hangouts Android Messages Allo Duo for fucks sake Google, just copy Whatsapp but make it stored on cloud, not on the device, like FB Messenger. Enable account recovery using email in addition to sms and enable usernames or email in addition ph…

that + a desktop client/web app is all anyone wishes for, how can they be do blind and stupid.

Hangouts has all that. What's wrong with hangouts? Why should it be replaced with something "newer"? Why does Google HO keep getting worse?

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#296

Post by mywittyname »

salimmadjd wrote: post #55

If I was to summarize the problem of Google is this: Google does not hire entrepreneurs. They're great at hiring engineers. They're great at hiring MBAs from top business schools. But their hiring process does not leave room for unusual rouge entrepreneurial people. I mentioned this to a person whose company was bought by FB and later became an investor. He agreed and he said, he was interviewed by google but they di…

I think the issue is they want too hard to be seen as entrepreneurs. They are always reinventing the same products rather than just improving what they have.

I'd go so far as to say, Google would benefit from a two-year ban on any new product releases. Engineers should spend that time focused on adding value to their current products.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#297

Post by rhizome »

nevir wrote: post #293
wetpaws wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. This is something a lot of people miss. IT culture in general and Google especially puts too much pressure on engineers to re-invent the wheel to get better visibility and promotions.

When the primary thing you're evaluated for is "impact", it's a wonder that Googlers bother to maintain any existing products at all. (Plenty do out of love for the product/customers/etc, but man it's soul crushing to not be recognized for it)

it's a wonder that Googlers bother to maintain any existing products at all.

My understanding is that not everybody there knows where the corporate ladders are. If you don't (yet) know the terms of promotion at the GOOG, you'll be happy to knock out bugs and tweaks day in and day out. You're a Googler!

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#299

Post by rjbwork »

pilom wrote: post #153
moksha256 wrote: post #134

Didn't Google have messaging figured out with Google Talk? Everyone was on Gmail all day (as many still are) and people actually used it. Then they let it wither, came out with Hangouts, and it's been a downhill train wreck from there. Google Talk had the potential of being one of the biggest messengers in the world...they own Gmail and Android (!!!!!). Are you kidding me? There's really no good reason for them NOT t…

One of the best features of using Google Fi as my cell provider is that I can still use Google Talk. Still works amazingly well and I can send text messages directly from Gmail or from my android phone. I love it.

Also on Fi - I use hangouts for everything. On desktop hangouts has my SMS and Fi phone number available for voice calls. On the run, hangouts is on my phone for SMS, and I can use my phone as normal for calling people. It's far and away the best experience I've had with a Google product outside of search/gmail. They really need to look at what the Fi folks are doing, because it is truly excellent.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#300

Post by oh_sigh »

rhizome wrote: post #297
nevir wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the primary thing you're evaluated for is "impact", it's a wonder that Googlers bother to maintain any existing products at all. (Plenty do out of love for the product/customers/etc, but man it's soul crushing to not be recognized for it)

it's a wonder that Googlers bother to maintain any existing products at all. My understanding is that not everybody there knows where the corporate ladders are. If you don't (yet) know the terms of promotion at the GOOG, you'll be happy to knock out bugs and tweaks day in and day out. You're a Googler!

The ladders and breakdown of what is required at each position are well known and talked about frequently, especially around performance review time. If you're a googler and don't know what's on your ladder you aren't paying attention
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