Why Do We Still Commute? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#301

Post by s73ver_ » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #203

ataturk wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something has to happen--my commute is only 11 miles but it often takes 40 minutes because of a stupid bridge that has had every social engineering plot applied to it to no avail (HOV lanes with pay-to-use transponders being the latest fashion and cops to enforce the rules slowing everyone else down). My career has suffered because I have never wanted the stress of a long commute nor could I afford the real estate pr…

>a stupid bridge that has had every social engineering plot applied to it to no avail (HOV lanes with pay-to-use transponders being the latest fashion and cops to enforce the rules slowing everyone else down). Too bad just paying poor people not to use the bridge isn't politically correct. It would be a heck of a lot more efficient than combining a bunch of disincentives that affect the lower classes.

They generally have jobs that are the least likely to be flexible with start and end hours.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#302

Post by rwmj » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

socalnate1 wrote: post #300

rwmj wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GP's point is that it's an externality for the company, and therefore they have no incentive to reduce the cost of commuting.

But this is wrong. It's not an externality for the company. Companies often often go out of their way to reduce this cost. Things like: - Covering the cost of a FastPass - Deciding where to locate a new office based on where employees live - Offering a company shuttle from a train station - "Google Bus" and other similar initiatives - Offering a potential employee a higher salary because of their long commute time Th…

Don't know about the US, but in the UK all those are taxable benefits, so they would reduce employees' take-home pay.

BTW I've never heard of a company moving for its employees' benefit, unless by "employees" you mean "senior management & board members".

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#303

Post by olyjohn » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #150

codingdave wrote: post #81

I worked from home for five years, and just this week started back into a job where I commute to an office. I don't love the commute, but I also don't agree that working from home is a universally better answer for me on a personal level. Everyone knows the benefits of working from home, but there are downsides as well. Fixable downsides, but they exist nonetheless -- it is easy to become a hermit. Easy to over-work.…

I think a good solution to this is to just mix it up. At my place we have a policy of working from home on Fridays and coming in the rest of the week. We get to have a day of not commuting, working in our pajamas, and still have plenty of time to be physically present in the office. As an added benefit, the workweek feels shorter.

I was going to say this exact thing. Have a place for people to come meet up, do their in person things and allow for telecommuting. A blanket in-office or remote-only policy is just inflexible.

Being the IT guy, I have to be in the office a lot of the time, but having 1 or 2 days to focus on projects at home and have no walk-up interruptions is very helpful.

Besides, if I really don't want to work, it doesn't matter if I'm home or at the office. I am a champion at slacking in the office. I can stealthily alt-tab like a motherfucker, and I see you coming long before you can see my screen.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#304

Post by wolco » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:55 PM UTC

majewsky wrote: post #17

BjoernKW wrote: post #14

I think that the 'importance of face-to-face interaction' argument is a helplessly contrived one, an attempt to avoid the elephant in the room. There are plenty of examples that show that working remotely without daily face-to-face interaction can work very well. What's markedly different about environments that successfully adopted remote work are aspects like: - a lack of cargo cult work organisation and office pol…

Another huge problem is the transition path from "everyone in the same office" to "everyone working remote". If you have 60% of your team sitting in the office, and 40% remote, you can be absolutely certain that those 40% will be out of touch on all those important decisions that just emerge during a watercooler conversation. (The watercooler also provides a way for different teams to get to know each other, even if…

The watercooler / hallway discussions are the signs of a culture lacking documentation processes. If requirements or changes are communicated in this way what happens when someone leaves or tries to QA the latest changes? What if there is a disagreement where one person assumed something else during the hallway discussion? Without documentation a company starts to fall apart after the team grows bigger than 6-12 people.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#305

Post by wolco » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

salvar wrote: post #239

gerardflo wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you discuss things that are not work related? Some people don't have boundaries apparently.

I'm having trouble understanding you. Are you saying that: 1. All work-related discussion should take place in formal meetings. and 2. No non-work-related discussions should ever happen in the workplace. ?

The poster is saying if you are discussing non work related things it is unprofessional because you are paid to work not socialize.

If you are having a discussion with your boss don't bother him when he is on a break, book a meeting.

I agree with parent poster in large orgs but in orgs where the founder eats lunch with you that level of formalness is awkward

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#306

Post by tene » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

philsnow wrote: post #232

briffle wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or at least encourage you to 'start at 10am' and other times, so that 7:30am-9am is not a single solid rush hour.. Spread the traffic over 3-4 hours, and its much nicer for everyone..

In the bay area the morning crush is anywhere between 6:45 and 11:45. I've sometimes tried the "man traffic looks really bad right now and I don't have any meetings in the morning, I'll wait until later to start my commute" and then check again at 10:30 and it's the same _or worse_.

I don't have any particular evidence that this is actually true, instead of just noticing patterns in randomness, but something that feels like it works more often than chance is commuting right after 09:00 or 10:00, on the theory that a significant number of commuters have deadlines on the hour, so traffic might be less immediately after the deadline. It's not completely reliable, so I'm skeptical that it's real, but it also makes a good enough excuse to get me on the road earlier than I would otherwise, so that's nice.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#307

Post by dagw » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

loco5niner wrote: post #191

dagw wrote: post #9

Because 'we' prefer it? I like going into the office. The morning walk to the office with its clear demarcation between work and not work, the ritual of grabbing a coffee in the morning with some colleagues and catching up on what's happening in their projects even if they're not directly related to anything I'm working on, having a dedicated space and a dedicated computer that's just for work, all those little thing…

> The morning walk to the office This is not quite a commute.

That's a remnant from days past when I lived within walking distance of my office. These days I take public transport, but I still get off a few stops early so I can walk ~30 minutes before reaching the office. Even a short while when was driving to work I'd park ~2.5 km from the office. Mainly because I could park for free, but also again so I wouldn't miss out on my morning walk.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#308

Post by wolco » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 6:06 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #135

BjoernKW wrote: post #14

I think that the 'importance of face-to-face interaction' argument is a helplessly contrived one, an attempt to avoid the elephant in the room. There are plenty of examples that show that working remotely without daily face-to-face interaction can work very well. What's markedly different about environments that successfully adopted remote work are aspects like: - a lack of cargo cult work organisation and office pol…

The article has links to studies that say face to face is important for complex problems. What is your counter aside from saying there are examples supporting your view? Source? (I would link the links here but am on mobile and running late)

Really? I can't imagine how. Most important discoveries were not found by committees.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#309

Post by ilaksh » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 6:06 PM UTC

mbrock wrote: post #152

Seems to me that this has a pretty intimate relation to the question of the "nature of the firm." Why do we work in firms rather than as independent contractors making contracts with each other? Why do we gather in rooms every day instead of working independently and emailing each other with low frequency asynchronous requests? I don't really understand firms, to be honest... I suspect it has way more to do with inst…

Because companies existed before email and were originally largely slave labor.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#310

Post by stronglikedan » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

wambotron wrote: post #241

vog wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is easy to become a hermit. Easy to over-work. Hard to draw the line between your work time and your personal time Not just that, but there's also the other side: Easy to procrastinate, easy to give false reports which then leads to regular overwork in the days just before a hard deadline. I know these issues from remote workers I worked with, but also know this personally while working on my Diploma theses. Whi…

> Easy to procrastinate, easy to give false reports which then leads to regular overwork in the days just before a hard deadline. This isn't a remote problem. I see this _all_ the time with people at work now and I don't work remotely. This is more of a personal issue -- some people do it consistently, others don't. I never had that problem working remotely, and I don't pretend to be somewhere else in my regular repo…

Just my personal anecdote, but I have much more discipline in the office than I do at home. I get distracted by everything at home, and I procrastinate by doing things I couldn't do at work, like housework, watching tv, etc. I know myself enough to know that I cannot trust myself to work at home on a regular basis, and I'm more content with myself regarding my productivity at the office.