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In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

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Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#301

Post by shruubi »

jzl wrote: post #147
shruubi wrote: post #92

Honestly, as much as I don't like Kalanick and would love a reason to dislike him even more, to some degree I have to side with him on this situation. The footage with the girls, while incredibly awkward, is nothing more than a flirtatious conversation. Now, fair enough that the driver realises he has the CEO of Uber in his car and wants to talk about his situation as a driver, and I give props to Kalanick for actual…

> Sure, but keep in mind that in this situation he is a guy in his private life who has been blindsided and accused of ruining this guys life, with, what it seems like from other posts here, lies. Oh come on, he's the CEO of Uber and he took an Uber. Probably every single Uber driver in the country if not the world knows who he is. If he doesn't have an expectation of being recognized and asked about the business he…

Sure, he is a very public figure in his role as Uber CEO, but to say that he is instantly recognisable by Uber drivers is a little much. As someone who follows a lot of tech news etc this is the first time I've even seen what he looks like. What is more likely is the driver overheard the previous conversation between Kalanick and the two ladies he was with and figured it out from there.

Personally, I believe whether you're the janitor or the CEO of a company there are moments in your life which should be considered personal-life rather than "a good time to talk about your company".

And no, it isn't someone hunting him down in the street, but taking advantage of a guy, whether a person is a CEO or not, by blindsiding them with questions while they are with company and then sending the recording to a news company in a very TMZ-ish manner, irregardless of whether permission was given for filming, is as good as sticking a mic in his face and in no way is fair game.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#302

Post by crgt »

dnautics wrote: post #197
rhizome wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would YOU be ok if your cab driver films you without any knowledge? Most taxis I've been in the past, oh, let's say 15 years, have had interior/passenger cams.

usually they have signs that say so. It's illegal to not notify your passenger that they are being filmed. It's possible that this driver had signs (but no way to know from just the video).

Are you sure this is the case in all states? My understanding is that some states are 1-party consent, tho IANAL.

Edit: This seems to back up my understanding that most states are 1-party consent. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-phone-calls-and-co...

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#303

Post by mbrumlow »

sedachv wrote: post #271
mbrumlow wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is a good reason to say they are employees. What happens when you look at it like this; A Uber driver must accept some % of request sent their way (any class), but if you want to be sent uber black request then you must have an appropriate car. I feel like you are looking at it from a top down view, vs a bottom up view. I am not saying ether view is right or wrong. I just find it hard to follow the…

> I just find it hard to follow the logic to how that makes them employees. The IRS has guidelines: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte/appx_d_irs_ic_test.html Arguments for drivers as employees: Behavioral Control 1a (the relevant argument I am making), 1b (Black drivers have specific types of cars), 1f Type of Relationship 11 > What I feel like uber has done is automated the process of hiring contractors for on th…

All good points. Thanks. I had not considered that way before.

I think 1a and 1f are the strongests points. I do feel 1b is a bit of a stretch. I don't think somebody becomes an employee because they require you to use a hammer and not a rock to push nails into wood when building a house. While that is not the best analogy I think you should be able to expect the contractor to show up to work with the right tools to do the job.

I would really like to see a system that was more like a real time Angie's list. In such when ride request came in drivers made bids, and requesters could pick from the bids. The bids might also have information about distance from pickup location (or expected pickup ETA, along with price). Maybe have a default setting to pick lowest bidder and shortest ETA. But other things like car styles or types could be part of the system too.

In any case thank you for your reply. You have given me some things to think about.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#304

Post by prostoalex »

PeterisP wrote: post #120
unityByFreedom wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think releasing the video was right. Regarding Uber black, another HN user points out, > Travis is right on a technicality they did not lower Uber Black prices much if any. What they did instead was coerced Uber Black drivers to take Uber X request. Yes drivers can reject Uber X request, but if you reject a certain amount of Uber rides, they kick you off their system. Probably why the driver is complaining ab…

If the consumers are voting with their wallets that they want more Uber X rides and less Uber Black rides, well, that's what should happen. To bring supply back in line with demand, some drivers who used to drive Uber Black should either leave or downgrade, and if they won't do it willingly, then some drivers going bankrupt is a way how the market forces "driver supply" to go in the direction where it apparently need…

UberBlack drivers never signed up to accept UberX fares. That wasn't part of the contract, which is why so many feel cheated, an equivalent of a cable company selling you a promotional $19.99 rate and then upping it to $79.99 once you bought the equipment.

> To bring supply back in line with demand, some drivers who used to drive Uber Black should either leave or downgrade

Sure, or some passengers who used to want a cheaper UberX but find it unavailable should either resort to alternative methods or upgrade to UberBlack - market equilibrium can be found in either direction.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#305

Post by prostoalex »

computerex wrote: post #222
untog wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but the way Uber is set up means the costs from that adjustment are bourne entirely by the driver, who was probably advised by Uber to take our a lease on an expensive luxury car in order to pick up expensive fares. Bear in mind the start of this thread was discussing the driver being rude. You can call it "market forces" as much as you like, but if Uber is happy to sit back and let its drivers pay the price, i…

This is the free market. Uber Black is one thing, but you do know Uber is aggressively working towards autonomous vehicles, because Uber wants to provide transportation in the future, and not just now. A $69 billion dollar company must always be thinking of the long term if they want to stay relevant. Uber isn't a charity. I don't condone Uber's culture or whatever the CEO may or may not have done to create such a wo…

It's not a problem if their driver recruitment material reflects that. If the message was "Drive a black car for occasional UberBlack fare, beware that you must accept a certain percentage of lower UberX fares, and that at some point you will be replaced by a driverless vehicle", it's truth in advertising and drivers get what they sign up for.

Driver ads, however, display successful-looking models quoting some unrealistic (as frequently pointed out by quite a few news sources) dollar amounts, and let's face it, the clientele it's targeting is very removed from robotics/AI development, unlikely to have an economics degree (or speak fluent English, for that matter) or disposable income to trade up / trade down their vehicle of choice to reflect the strategy of the day.

Your argument can be rewritten to apply to Countrywide Mortgage and fake Viagra peddlers, does that make those businesses right?

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#306

Post by jimmywanger »

jzl wrote: post #284
jimmywanger wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh come on, he's the CEO of Uber and he took an Uber. And if he took a Lyft, a private limo, or drove himself, that would be even worse publicity. Right now no matter what he does he'll get people sniping at him, just like on this board. It's a herd mentality where you pick on perceived weakness, and it's always ugly. > Probably every single Uber driver in the country if not the world knows who he is. Does every si…

> And if he took a Lyft, a private limo, or drove himself, that would be even worse publicity. Right now no matter what he does he'll get people sniping at him, just like on this board. It's a herd mentality where you pick on perceived weakness, and it's always ugly. I'm not saying he shouldn't take Ubers. I'm responding to the comment "he is a guy in his private life who has been blindsided". He should have every ex…

> He should have every expectation that any driver he gets might ask him about the business,

I don't think he's in the public eye that way. The courts take a very specific view on who is or is not in the public eye. Also, he did engage with the driver until the driver got belligerent. Should he have just brushed off the driver with "I don't talk business during off hours?" The driver was not letting this go.

> The cult of personality around Kalanick is huge

Citation needed. I couldn't pick him out of a lineup, and I use uber daily, just like I couldn't pick the CEO of ATT out of a lineup.

Basically, the driver was behaving unprofessionally. If you were a limo driver or a waiter at a nicer restaurant, you get fired if you acknowledge the customer's status or fame at all. That sort of thing is not done and horribly intrusive.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#307

Post by [deleted] »

dkonofalski wrote: post #229
mikeash wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a properly functioning market, drivers would be going bankrupt due to not having enough fares, not by being forced to take unprofitable fares. If customers are voting with their wallets that they want more UberX and less Uber Black, then Uber Black drivers should be faced with a choice of chasing volume or margins, not forced to subsidize customers.

They're not being forced to take unprofitable fares, though. They're being offered UberX customers when there are no Uber Black customers available. Whether or not they have the ability to change that priority is the question here. It seems that taking a slightly lower fare is better than taking no far at all at a higher rate.

[deleted]

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#308

Post by Aeolun »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #84
seertaak wrote: post #46

This will probably be an unpopular opinion, but I actually thought the driver was exceedingly rude. He clearly took advantage of Kalanick being in the public eye, and thus a "target". Filming him without acknowledging it was totally immoral, it should reduce any fair person's bayesian priors as to the credibility of the driver. I'm no fan of Kalanick, but I thought he comported himself reasonably, taking the time to…

Also, while it's perfectly okay for the driver to tell Travis what his concerns or pain points are, it's rather rich of him to assume that he has any context to tell Travis what business decisions make sense. As if Uber won't have charged higher prices if they could get away with it. The CEOs being disconnected with the masses is bad, but so is the masses assuming that somehow THEY know just the right thing the CEO s…

It's fair to assume that Uber could have not lowered the prices in exchange for a smaller market share. Which would have been a pretty good arrangement for existing drivers.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#309

Post by prostoalex »

dkonofalski wrote: post #259
mikeash wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they refuse too many UberX fares, they'll be dumped. I'm sure Uber will argue that doesn't qualify as "forced," but it does to me.

That's not true with Uber Black. If you refuse an Uber X fare as an Uber Black driver, you're just marked as inactive temporarily (as you've declined a legitimate customer when there were no Uber Black customers). You can mark yourself as active again and take fares, but you are not forced to take Uber X fares as an Uber Black driver.

If it's as seamless as you describe it to be, it's not an issue. An external source here https://pando.com/2014/09/04/uber-continues-to-screw-its-par... claims "Uber drivers are required to maintain a minimum 80 percent ride acceptance rate to remain in the company’s good graces – the best performers exceed 97 percent, the company tells its drivers. Ignore too many inbound ride requests when you are the closest vehicle and the result could be some combination of reprimand/probation, lost bonus income, or, in extreme cases, deactivation of the driver’s account".

I don't have any personal experience driving, would be nice to have a clarification on that.

Re: In Video, Uber CEO Argues with Driver Over Falling Fares

#310

Post by Aeolun »

1_2__3 wrote: post #173
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where else should he grind it? Kalanick is the CEO. He made a decision which affects this mans livelihood. Kalanick certainly gets paid enough to face up to people like this. And if he wants to stop facing up to it, maybe he can do something about their pay.

> He made a decision which affects this mans livelihood. You don't get to challenge everyone in your life who makes decisions that directly or indirectly affect you.

Well, yes, you do. At least, there's generally no reason why you couldn't challenge them. No guarantee they'll listen.
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