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Coup attempt underway in Turkey

theatlantic.com

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Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#301

Post by chvid »

Animats wrote: post #293

Current status as reported by government of Turkey: - Coup attempt claimed to be unsuccessful. - About 1500 members of military arrested so far. Two senior generals will be tried for treason. - About 90 dead reported so far. - Heavy damage at parliament building and presidential palace. - Airports supposedly reopening soon. (Airport departure list shows "Delayed" for everything except one flight to Odessa.) [1] - If…

I found it very strange the coup makers did not attempt to round Erdogan up at his holiday home in Marmaris (or wherever he was).

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#303

Post by elcapitan »

Weird. This coup of July 16 failed in exactly the same way as the coup against Hitler of July 20 failed - a small group of military sub-leadership, a failed bomb attack against the leader, a half-hearted attempt to secure the capital, all breaking down with the leader re-connecting with the non-cooperating rest of government and military. And now most likely horrible revenge against all involved.

I always thought people from the military would at least consider the historic scenarios.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#304

Post by tim333 »

geverett wrote: post #284
fatihdonmez wrote: post #277

It's same like Reichstag fire. Now Erdogan is more powerful to change constitution with presidential system. ps: I'm turkish

Completely agree. For context: wince the foundation of the Turkish Republic in 1923, there have been periodic military coups, notably in 1960, 1980, and 1997. The army's stated purpose has always been to 'preserve the constitution and democracy', as it is this time. While I'm not in favor of the use of violent force to unseat a democratically elected government, the current government in Turkey is anything but. Recep…

Shame really. I guess we now have president for life Erdogan for two or three decades.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#305

Post by tremon »

DasIch wrote: post #251
bjourne wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it works in multi-party parliaments. It's very rare for one party to get more than 50% so instead the largest minority party (or constellation of parties) gets selected to form a government. NSDAP was that party in Germany in 1932. It's only in the American and English systems where there are only two options to choose from that a leader can claim "majority" support.

No, it's not. In multi-party parliaments you have coalitions that together form a government. The NSDAP did not form such a coalition.

Still, it's usually the largest party (or the largest electoral winner) that gets first pickings to try to form a coalition.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#306

Post by DanielBMarkham »

tajen wrote: post #300
dmix wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this thing goes south -- and I fear it will -- the backlash will be severe. Not a good thing for the future of Turkey. Especially considering he has been a tempered authoritarian before the coup. Now they will respond by expanding authority. Leaders like that always do. Hopefully that will further lead to support of the coup end goals which had some legitimacy. The only problem is that Erogdan has many hardline…

But those military gained access to aircrafts, bombs and their activation systems, which they used to bomb the parliament and seemingly many other targets in Ankara and Istambul. Makes you wonder how safe is Europe. > The only problem is Erdogan has many hardline islamic fanatics to help m... Ahem, really, how safe is Europe if, for example, France decided that we have an Islamisation/integration problem, and started…

I wish it were that simple.

The problem is that Turkey is not changing up civilian control. They've had Erdogen for what? 13 years? That's not a healthy system. That's a system where one bunch is running the tables. Such systems always lead to much worse than military coups. Anybody checked out Venezuela lately?

There's probably been some support for IS coming from Turkey, although not from the military. Turkey is a NATO member and nuclear. They're in the middle of a really tense and unstable region.

All of this is bad. Really bad. And now we'll get 10x more of it.

I do not support military coups if a civilian government is functioning and changing up the dominent parties and leaders every so often. Everybody gets a turn. I don't see that in Turkey. I see a country headed either towards internal or external crisis. Perhaps both.

There's also another point: the vast majority of citizens in a country may want to have leaders and policies that destroy it. That's their right. If that's where Turkey is headed, NATO alliance members need to think about how to adapt accordingly.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#307

Post by cies »

elcapitan wrote: post #303

Weird. This coup of July 16 failed in exactly the same way as the coup against Hitler of July 20 failed - a small group of military sub-leadership, a failed bomb attack against the leader, a half-hearted attempt to secure the capital, all breaking down with the leader re-connecting with the non-cooperating rest of government and military. And now most likely horrible revenge against all involved. I always thought peo…

I don't know for Hitler's July 20 coup, but he is known to have staged several "false flag" attacks against Germany / German gov't, while in power.

For instance the Reichstag fire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire

And this one (which is not even "doubted" by Wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#308

Post by tremon »

jazzyk wrote: post #228
gakada wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Headscarves not tolerated either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_c...

Please see my edit above: you can wear a head scarf, as long as it does not imply (any) religious affiliation.

and as long as you're not in primary education.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#309

Post by usrusr »

jnbiche wrote: post #54
watermelon59 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangential, but why do people support Erdogan? From what I hear he's a terrible leader and moving towards a full dictatorship.

> Tangential, but why do people support Erdogan? Why do people support Trump?

"Make Turkey strong again" is quite the essence of why people love Erdogan.

In fact, replace Turkey with any country in the world and one of their historical strongman leader figures will come to mind...

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#310

Post by elcapitan »

cies wrote: post #307
elcapitan wrote: post #303

Weird. This coup of July 16 failed in exactly the same way as the coup against Hitler of July 20 failed - a small group of military sub-leadership, a failed bomb attack against the leader, a half-hearted attempt to secure the capital, all breaking down with the leader re-connecting with the non-cooperating rest of government and military. And now most likely horrible revenge against all involved. I always thought peo…

I don't know for Hitler's July 20 coup, but he is known to have staged several "false flag" attacks against Germany / German gov't, while in power. For instance the Reichstag fire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire And this one (which is not even "doubted" by Wikipedia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident

The 20th of July was the coup against Hitler ("Valkyrie", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Valkyrie).

And the Reichstag fire was not a false flag operation, it was just exploited afterwards as an excuse to finish up German democracy. The perpetrator had a criminal record for arson. Maybe you should read articles that you link to?

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