Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lost Brother in Yosemite

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 72 posts

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#31

Post by vannevar »

davidw wrote: post #21
carsonbaker wrote: post #12

I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude. But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The…

> mountain biking A heavy, shod horse tromping around and pooping all over the place is going to do far more trail damage than mountain bikes.

But there are probably an order of magnitude (or two) fewer riders than bikers.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#32

Post by davidw »

maaku wrote: post #30
davidw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mountain biking A heavy, shod horse tromping around and pooping all over the place is going to do far more trail damage than mountain bikes.

The damage is to the serenity enjoyed by the people hiking or horseback riding, not the trail itself.

That's just everyone's preferences rather than anything objective then. Perhaps those horseback riders damage the serenity of the mountain bike riders or the hikers by crapping all over the trail. Well, their horses, I mean.

Also, remember that horses are not an indigenous species in recorded history in North America.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#33

Post by homunculus »

davidw wrote: post #32
maaku wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The damage is to the serenity enjoyed by the people hiking or horseback riding, not the trail itself.

That's just everyone's preferences rather than anything objective then. Perhaps those horseback riders damage the serenity of the mountain bike riders or the hikers by crapping all over the trail. Well, their horses, I mean. Also, remember that horses are not an indigenous species in recorded history in North America.

It's also good to remember that deer, bear, and untold numbers of other species crap all over the trail also. That hasn't ever been an impediment to my backpacking.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#34

Post by mc32 »

davidw wrote: post #32
maaku wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The damage is to the serenity enjoyed by the people hiking or horseback riding, not the trail itself.

That's just everyone's preferences rather than anything objective then. Perhaps those horseback riders damage the serenity of the mountain bike riders or the hikers by crapping all over the trail. Well, their horses, I mean. Also, remember that horses are not an indigenous species in recorded history in North America.

People aren't indigenous to the americas either, having introduced ourselves but a dozen or two thousand years ago.

I don't think one should consider nativity very much when deciding if something is good or not in a given context. More what the impact is, irrespective of nativity.

Never the less, bikes are even less native than horses... At least horses are organic.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#35

Post by stinkytaco »

cromulent wrote: post #29
pbreit wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine. Just do it where it's legal.

OK, we would all like that, but if you are this personality type, trying to do push the boundaries of human flight, then you don't really consider that. You find the best place to do it and go for it. Sometimes the law is an ass. If Dean had sat on his couch and ate himself into a 240kg shut-in, it would be legal, no-one would be commenting and objecting to the cost to society. I would like more Deans and less of the…

>If Dean had sat on his couch and ate himself into a 240kg shut-in, it would be legal, no-one would be commenting and objecting to the cost to society.

Except people do object to that cost to society. Indeed, I'd say there's a much large, more organized and effective political movement to end social security and welfare programs for the disabled than there are people who oppose BASE jumping in the national parks.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#36

Post by cjensen »

cromulent wrote: post #19
cjensen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National Parks are preserves; they are not playgrounds. You cannot play loud music. You cannot drive off road. You cannot parachute. You cannot hang-glide. You cannot camp anywhere you like. There are many strongly enforced rules to maximize preservation and minimize disturbance. National Recreation Areas are playgrounds. National Forests are mildly limited playgrounds. National Wildlife Refuges are strongly regulate…

Sure, but there is some hypocrisy going on. They were created "to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and wildlife therein, and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations." I think the jumpers are not impairing them for future generations, but some others are. More than 60 people have died on Hal…

Jumpers interfere with scenery and the enjoyment of the same.

Choosing to allow some things while disallowing others is not hypocrisy. It's thoughtful decision-making.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#37

Post by cossatot »

carsonbaker wrote: post #12

I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude. But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The…

I'm pretty sure Muir would have been a BASE jumper. Ever read that part in The Mountains of California where he climbed 100 feet up and then strapped himself to the top of a Doug fir in a huge storm just to experience the storm's fury in the canopy? He was an adventurer, and didn't view the wilderness solely as a source of tranquility on nice summer evenings.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#38

Post by robotresearcher »

carsonbaker wrote: post #12

I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude. But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The…

> I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it.

From the fine article:

" “The reason we would like to discourage it is not so much because of the danger of it, but the spectacle of it,” O’Neal said during an interview at the park’s Emergency Operations Centre."

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#39

Post by abakker »

vannevar wrote: post #31
davidw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mountain biking A heavy, shod horse tromping around and pooping all over the place is going to do far more trail damage than mountain bikes.

But there are probably an order of magnitude (or two) fewer riders than bikers.

Maybe, but the horse riders have boatloads of money (In my experience), attend meetings, and have historical precedent on their side. Mountain biking is still new.

Horse riders can always look back to a time when what they now do for sport used to be the only form of transit.

I come from a family of horse riders, and am a mountain biker. Really, it is completely possible to get along and share the trails. Obviously, some trails are only going to work for mountain bikes, and some are much nicer for horses (and boring for bikers).

I'd love to see horse riders required to clean up after their horses, just like dog owners clean up after their dogs. It's your pet, clean up.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#40

Post by carsonbaker »

cossatot wrote: post #37
carsonbaker wrote: post #12

I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude. But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The…

I'm pretty sure Muir would have been a BASE jumper. Ever read that part in The Mountains of California where he climbed 100 feet up and then strapped himself to the top of a Doug fir in a huge storm just to experience the storm's fury in the canopy? He was an adventurer, and didn't view the wilderness solely as a source of tranquility on nice summer evenings.

Wow, I didn't know that in particular. I hiked the John Muir Trail last summer and often looked into the distance at some crazy steep peak and wondered how the hell John Muir nabbed the first ascent with nothing more than a knapsack and a pair of old boots.

Maybe he would have been a BASE jumper. I don't know. What's clear is he loved nature more than anything, and I don't think he'd be too happy at the sight of Curry Village today.

Post reply on HN