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Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

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Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#31

Post by saryant »

michaelochurch wrote: post #28
yummyfajitas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Uber shit" is having a single transparent price that fluctuates with market forces. That's not remotely what airlines do.

Airlines (Soviet service and morale, capitalistic price fluctuation) are a perfect microcosm of corporate capitalism, which exists to give the worst of both systems (that is, capitalism and socialism) to the masses and the best of both (social safety net/impunity of socialism, extreme upside of capitalism) to a well-connected elite (often called "the 1%", but closer to 0.1%).

Considering airfares are the cheapest they've ever been in the US, I don't know how that's even remotely true. More of "the masses" are able to fly than ever before.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#32

Post by Someone1234 »

spdustin wrote: post #22
michaelochurch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that it's dynamic pricing that makes people hate the airlines. It's the rash of bad-faith activity around the dynamic pricing. For example, decreasing legroom and forcing disabled people into business class tickets they wouldn't have needed, were it 20 years ago when coach seats had enough room, is bad-faith activity. Likewise, this "boarding group" nonsense where "Group 5" means you'll have no overhead…

To be fair, they're not forcing anyone into anything. As much as I loathe handing over my money to airlines - an experience I sometimes have to face three times a month - they are a for-profit commercial enterprise with no requirements for how they operate beyond government-imposed ones. Want something legitimate to complain about when thinking of flying the friendly skies? Think about the airlines whining about the…

There should be a government imposed minimum seat pitch. The current distance between the back of one seat and the front of another is too small for the top 10% in terms of height of the population, disabled people, and older people.

Then airlines cannot use "competition" to argue why they should make seats smaller and smaller, as all competition would have to adapt also.

I don't care if they're a private business. That means nothing to me. When all airlines have the same tiny seats and no alternative that isn't 5-10x more expensive, that is collusion, not competition.

Particularly in the US, you can pick any airline you want but the products are identical.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#33

Post by encoderer »

kxo wrote: post #30
chrisseaton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's United Club - that's not the first class lounge at all. If you read the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Club it says you can buy access to United Club, but doesn't say that about the first class lounge. In fact it says: "the access rules are significantly more restrictive than for United Club. Access to Global First Lounges is generally restricted to United Global First passengers, Star Alli…

> If you could really get in for $50 a day, you could easily eat and drink that much worth. Or just get an American Express card (Platinum, ideally - no additional fees) and net access to the Centurion lounge and all Delta lounges (when flying Delta). The Centurion lounge is second-to-none domestically, and the Delta lounges aren't half-bad when it comes to the free booze (some are self-serve - Jack Daniels, Grey Goo…

That card is $400 a year.

And they haven't reduced the fee even while losing Continental lounges when it was bought by United.

For my money, the Citi AAdvantage Executive card is a better similar card, because it now gives you access to all AA and USAirways lounges. While you're right that in my experience the Delta lounges are better (the only amex lounge I've been to is at mccarran), what matters most to me is a lounge in the cities i connect thru.

The Citi card is the same AF as the Amex Plat but Plat has policy of never waiving first year AF and Citi often has a promotion doing just that (or a portion of).

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#34

Post by encoderer »

michaelochurch wrote: post #15
phantom784 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buy first class tickets just for the lounges? Usually, you can just pay $30 or so for a day pass to a lounge.

In the US, you can. In less enlightened countries, that's not the case. Of course, for a 2-hour domestic flight, the lounge is just a perk rather than a necessity.

The lounge really has nothing to do with the length of the flight, rather, it's the length of the layover. Though I suppose you mean as compared to an international lounge where the hot shower is desirable.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#35

Post by izacus »

spdustin wrote: post #22
michaelochurch wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that it's dynamic pricing that makes people hate the airlines. It's the rash of bad-faith activity around the dynamic pricing. For example, decreasing legroom and forcing disabled people into business class tickets they wouldn't have needed, were it 20 years ago when coach seats had enough room, is bad-faith activity. Likewise, this "boarding group" nonsense where "Group 5" means you'll have no overhead…

To be fair, they're not forcing anyone into anything. As much as I loathe handing over my money to airlines - an experience I sometimes have to face three times a month - they are a for-profit commercial enterprise with no requirements for how they operate beyond government-imposed ones. Want something legitimate to complain about when thinking of flying the friendly skies? Think about the airlines whining about the…

> To be fair, they're not forcing anyone into anything.

I see this argument a lot of time but I still don't really know how exactly that redeems companies bad business practices and user hostility. What is the purpose of this argument? Saying that it's ok? If not, what else?

Also, what is the alternative? Use a cargo ship over seas? Choose from another 5 companies with same crappy business practices?

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#36

Post by joosters »

chrisseaton wrote: post #21
spdustin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um... All airports with United or American lounges? It's $50 a day, though. With American, they actively try to sell you a day pass on their in-airport check-in terminals. Edit: please don't correct actual life experience with a quote from Wikipedia. United Club is the name of their "first class" lounge, as people incorrectly refer to them. Those United Club Lounges have complimentary booze [1]. And no airline is goi…

That's United Club - that's not the first class lounge at all. If you read the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Club it says you can buy access to United Club, but doesn't say that about the first class lounge. In fact it says: "the access rules are significantly more restrictive than for United Club. Access to Global First Lounges is generally restricted to United Global First passengers, Star Alli…

If you could really get in for $50 a day, you could easily eat and drink that much worth.

No need to pay $50 a day, just buy a fully-flexible first class ticket and keep re-scheduling it:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/mad-mad-world/Chine...

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#37

Post by markdown »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #8

In the states, the more I deal with cellular companies and airlines, the more I hate them. It's not just me: it's a common opinion. One prominent business magazine had a cover a few years back titled something like "The companies we all hate" Consumers like to purchase things in atomic units and simple terms. If I go to the grocery store, there's a bushel of apples. The sign says "Granny Smith apples: $1" I can confi…

This doesn't take away from your point at all, but I just wanted to point out that:

> I can confidently pick up an apple, walk to the register, and expect to pay a dollar.

This is true in most of the world, but not in the US, where you don't know what you're paying until you reach the checkout counter.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#38

Post by Someone1234 »

michaelochurch wrote: post #15
phantom784 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buy first class tickets just for the lounges? Usually, you can just pay $30 or so for a day pass to a lounge.

In the US, you can. In less enlightened countries, that's not the case. Of course, for a 2-hour domestic flight, the lounge is just a perk rather than a necessity.

> In less enlightened countries, that's not the case.

Less enlightened? Wow, I don't even know what to say to that. Even if you're just referring to their louge policy that's a pretty strange turn of phrase, but I doubt that was the implication.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#39

Post by lfuller »

rspeer wrote: post #4

I was hoping for something that explained the part where they get you to pay a higher fare by tracking you on the Web. But maybe an insider site like this wouldn't be willing to talk about that. There are many sites that describe this happening, such as [1]. And I've seen it happen to me: a fare would go up by $50 while I was searching, and opening a private browsing window would make it go back down. [1] http://www.…

I know Air Canada does this pretty blatantly. When searching for flights they constantly go up by $50 - $100 an hour then magically reset to the original price when I open up an incognito browser window.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#40

Post by Someone1234 »

zrail wrote: post #26

Southwest, as far as I can tell, doesn't change rates once they've published. Three rate tiers, optional early check-in to get a better boarding order position, and free baggage. The most striking difference is that, in general, the flight attendants are happy . They smile. They joke around. Sometimes they sing songs. I was on a flight a few months ago where the entire plane played a game because it was someone's bir…

I too very much enjoy Southwest. Seems like people either love them or hate them (mostly because a lot of people want assured seat locations rather than the "bus model" Southwest utilises).
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