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Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

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Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#21

Post by chrisseaton »

spdustin wrote: post #16
chrisseaton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$30 for a day pass to a first class lounge? I can't believe that at all. Can you show me which airports and lounges offer that because I'm going to take them up on it.

Um... All airports with United or American lounges? It's $50 a day, though. With American, they actively try to sell you a day pass on their in-airport check-in terminals. Edit: please don't correct actual life experience with a quote from Wikipedia. United Club is the name of their "first class" lounge, as people incorrectly refer to them. Those United Club Lounges have complimentary booze [1]. And no airline is goi…

That's United Club - that's not the first class lounge at all.

If you read the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Club it says you can buy access to United Club, but doesn't say that about the first class lounge. In fact it says:

"the access rules are significantly more restrictive than for United Club. Access to Global First Lounges is generally restricted to United Global First passengers, Star Alliance First Class customers, and Global Services passengers confirmed in Business Class."

In the first class lounge you get free food and drink including alcohol. If you could really get in for $50 a day, you could easily eat and drink that much worth.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#22

Post by spdustin »

michaelochurch wrote: post #12
johnlabaptise wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if you're only getting 1.5-2x as much space, it doesn't seem fair that you'd have to pay 10x prices" Business aren't obligated to offer you prices that you think are fair. I don't understand why people think they are. When people say something is a rip-off or unfairly priced what they really mean is that they aren't willing to pay that price for the product. What a business chooses to charge you is entirely up to th…

I don't think that it's dynamic pricing that makes people hate the airlines. It's the rash of bad-faith activity around the dynamic pricing. For example, decreasing legroom and forcing disabled people into business class tickets they wouldn't have needed, were it 20 years ago when coach seats had enough room, is bad-faith activity. Likewise, this "boarding group" nonsense where "Group 5" means you'll have no overhead…

To be fair, they're not forcing anyone into anything. As much as I loathe handing over my money to airlines - an experience I sometimes have to face three times a month - they are a for-profit commercial enterprise with no requirements for how they operate beyond government-imposed ones.

Want something legitimate to complain about when thinking of flying the friendly skies? Think about the airlines whining about the cost of fuel (and jacking up their ticket prices over 10%/year) when fuel prices are significantly less than four years ago when their whining was strongest.

Or, if you're like me, think about their failure to solve one major gripe by stating, "do not place your bag in an overhead bin at the front of the aircraft unless you're sitting in the goddamn front of the aircraft."

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#23

Post by michaelochurch »

chrisseaton wrote: post #13
phantom784 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People buy first class tickets just for the lounges? Usually, you can just pay $30 or so for a day pass to a lounge.

$30 for a day pass to a first class lounge? I can't believe that at all. Can you show me which airports and lounges offer that because I'm going to take them up on it.

It varies by country.

For all the bad press about US inequality (and our health insurance system is a disaster) and for all our right-wing politics (the two-party system allows the authoritarian/psychotic 30% that every country has to gain a major foothold; EU loonies and racists are split between left and right but ours have been successfully corralled to right and "the base" of a major party) I will actually go on record to say that, at heart, Americans aren't very elitist or classist.

In other countries where the rich are held to be simply better people, and act with impunity, the rules are very different. See, the Midwestern neurosurgeon in the US is, in technical terms, not a fucking prick, so he doesn't mind sharing the lounge with a guy who bought a day pass. On the other hand, some lieutenant for a third-world despot, or some unionbusting murderer in a Chinese factory, is going to be pissed if he finds out that someone from economy class was let in to the lounge. So overseas, in countries where the rich are just a lot worse, a lot of lounges have no-day-pass policies.

You can bribe your way in, but that's icky. I have no problem with cheating a large corporation, but foreign airlines are pretty awful to lounge agents who are caught taking bribes.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#24

Post by Someone1234 »

One additional note: While airfares do get progressively more expensive (on average) as you get closer to your flight, if you book too far out you will actually pay MORE. A lot of discount fares don't open until around six months before a flight (approximately), sometimes less. So if you book too far in advanced you'll pay close to a "full fare" (or at least miss out on some of the better discount classes). This, I suspect, is because the airline hasn't yet calculated how many discount classes they'll be opening up, so they just give you a "default"/safe price that they likely won't regret.

Just something to keep in mind from someone who often plans travel 6+ months in advanced. Booking flights 3-4 months in advance is fairly safe, longer or shorter and you might suffer for it.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#25

Post by giarc »

jexe wrote: post #20

So has anyone built a site that lets you put limit orders on airline seats yet? I'd love to, say, have something automatically book a $250 flight across the country if the price happens to cross that threshold in the next week.

yapta.com doesn't allow booking but it does allow you to set alerts on specific flights.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#26

Post by zrail »

Southwest, as far as I can tell, doesn't change rates once they've published. Three rate tiers, optional early check-in to get a better boarding order position, and free baggage.

The most striking difference is that, in general, the flight attendants are happy. They smile. They joke around. Sometimes they sing songs. I was on a flight a few months ago where the entire plane played a game because it was someone's birthday.

If Southwest flies anywhere close to where I'm going, I make a point to fly with them. Even if they're slightly more expensive, the drastically less toxic experience makes up for it.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#27

Post by giarc »

coldcode wrote: post #2

Good overview. Having worked at a GDS subsidiary and written about this topic, another thing to add is it depends on how many caches there are between you and the root database. Airfares are heavily cached so the data that is shown in search results is often stale; only the final booking (when you actually pay) is the real number. The more contention for seats as you get to the last few the more likely the final pric…

Great explanation, however why do I never see "Your fare has increased $55" on sites like Expedia but sites like CheapAir.com have it all the time. I expect Expedia and CheapAir.com have the same source of data therefore it does seem like a bait and switch situation.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#28

Post by michaelochurch »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #19
michaelochurch wrote: post #3

"We did that Uber shit before it was cool." -- The airlines. Another thing that surprises most people is how expensive business and first class are, relative to coach. After all, if you're only getting 1.5-2x as much space, it doesn't seem fair that you'd have to pay 10x prices. The truth is that many of those seats are filled via upgrades to frequent fliers and more fairly priced in that view. But someone who asks f…

"Uber shit" is having a single transparent price that fluctuates with market forces. That's not remotely what airlines do.

Airlines (Soviet service and morale, capitalistic price fluctuation) are a perfect microcosm of corporate capitalism, which exists to give the worst of both systems (that is, capitalism and socialism) to the masses and the best of both (social safety net/impunity of socialism, extreme upside of capitalism) to a well-connected elite (often called "the 1%", but closer to 0.1%).

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#29

Post by unfamiliar »

Corollary: this implies that booking flights which are the cheapest/most inconvenient will likely end you up in a less populated plane. Double win!

This is another reason to be wary of ubiquitous tracking for marketing purposes. Say I want to fly from Kent to New York via London. I book my expensive transatlantic flight and once that is secured, book my domestic flight.

But if Big Data is watching my actions, what is to stop the airline hiking the price of the domestic flight as soon as they see me booking the transatlantic flight? At that point I am committed and will be forced to pay much more than I had planned for the domestic flight.

Re: Air Fares 101 – Why do fares change all the time?

#30

Post by kxo »

chrisseaton wrote: post #21
spdustin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um... All airports with United or American lounges? It's $50 a day, though. With American, they actively try to sell you a day pass on their in-airport check-in terminals. Edit: please don't correct actual life experience with a quote from Wikipedia. United Club is the name of their "first class" lounge, as people incorrectly refer to them. Those United Club Lounges have complimentary booze [1]. And no airline is goi…

That's United Club - that's not the first class lounge at all. If you read the wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Club it says you can buy access to United Club, but doesn't say that about the first class lounge. In fact it says: "the access rules are significantly more restrictive than for United Club. Access to Global First Lounges is generally restricted to United Global First passengers, Star Alli…

> If you could really get in for $50 a day, you could easily eat and drink that much worth.

Or just get an American Express card (Platinum, ideally - no additional fees) and net access to the Centurion lounge and all Delta lounges (when flying Delta).

The Centurion lounge is second-to-none domestically, and the Delta lounges aren't half-bad when it comes to the free booze (some are self-serve - Jack Daniels, Grey Goose, etc.)

United's clubs are a joke comparatively.

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