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How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

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Re: How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

#31

Post by McDoku »

__P wrote: post #28
ck2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is good to hear but isn't state media now peddling that while the protests exist, they are being manufactured by "outside foreign forces" and not genuine? They are even calling for Chinese paramilitary to be sent it. That is scary.

I haven't really read the "outside foreign forces" line in chinese press. Where did you see that? Chinese understand their government and the Hong Kong situation. So I don't know why the government would need to lie about it? You are assuming the majority of chinese want a democratic government. I'm not sure that's true.

With out universal suffrage how can you tell the collective will with out an imposed narrative bias?

Press is controlled and self censored. Many Chinese that I know simply stay clear of politics. Politics has very dark consequences in China.

Even if you are a party member you can easily get caught up in an anti-corruption purge.

Don't get me wrong, democracy is not a silver bullet... it is allot of work and imperfect at the best of times.

Re: How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

#32

Post by zhemao »

ck2 wrote: post #2

Given how China is able to completely hide the protests inside the mainland, I fear for how this is going to end, because they can hide that too. I mean who really is going to come to their defense, look how everyone immediately abandoned Ukraine.

It would be pretty hard to completely hide something that big considering many Hong Kongers have relatives living on the mainland and vice-versa. Unless they completely close off the internal border and sever all communication lines, word is going to get out. But if that happened, people would definitely know that something is off.

Currently, the official Chinese media isn't trying to hide what is happening, but they are trying to put their own spin on it.

Re: How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

#33

Post by nbevans »

__P wrote: post #28
ck2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is good to hear but isn't state media now peddling that while the protests exist, they are being manufactured by "outside foreign forces" and not genuine? They are even calling for Chinese paramilitary to be sent it. That is scary.

I haven't really read the "outside foreign forces" line in chinese press. Where did you see that? Chinese understand their government and the Hong Kong situation. So I don't know why the government would need to lie about it? You are assuming the majority of chinese want a democratic government. I'm not sure that's true.

There's quite a few articles where China has directly blamed the British government of interference. We have done nothing wrong from what I can see. The USA has, today, made a larger interference than anything we've done by holding a White House press conference on the subject of Hong Kong.

The UK signed a treaty that it, and China, would uphold the two systems approach (amongst other assurances) for HK. Since the UK is a signatory to this treaty we are at least allowed to make comments on the subject. China is acting as though this treaty does not exist by suggesting we are interfering.

That said, I read this morning that our deputy PM Nick Clegg has been tweeting on the HK protests. He needs to shut up. Twitter is not the way for a UK government to make its feelings known.

Re: How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

#34

Post by powertower »

socceroos wrote: post #8
xnull wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait who abandoned Ukraine?

Sanctions don't count. When people are dying sanctions don't count.

When Kiev is sending in troops to indiscriminately kill eastern Ukrainians that don't want anything to do with the new regime, while Russia is doing everything it can to stabilize the situation, and the western media is spouting nonsense about Russian aggression, yes, sanctions against Russia don't count.

There is a geo-political game going on in Ukraine right now. If you think you are getting an accurate assessment of the situation on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News, you'd be about as right as you where on Libya, Iraq, and the other dozen or so major conflicts that ended up being nothing but full of lies.

It's in US's best interest to see Ukraine fall into a state of constant chaos. It's in Russia best interest to see Ukraine stabilize. From those two points you pretty much can infer who the aggressor is going to be.

Re: How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

#35

Post by [deleted] »

ck2 wrote: post #23
[deleted] wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

That is good to hear but isn't state media now peddling that while the protests exist, they are being manufactured by "outside foreign forces" and not genuine? They are even calling for Chinese paramilitary to be sent it. That is scary.

[deleted]

Re: How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

#36

Post by reckoner13 »

jMyles wrote: post #18
sliverstorm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weeelll... that depends on a lot of things. Any jammer with the power to work over a meaningful radius in this context is probably going to throw out lots of spurious emissions in neighboring bands.

Police Radios (and GMRS, and FRS) are not neighboring bands to 802.11

Does China use the same frequency bands as US?

Re: How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

#37

Post by tkinom »

McDoku wrote: post #30
wyager wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>disabling all wireless activity in the area of jamming Only on the jammed frequencies. Police radios and such will keep working.

I think he was talking about the surrounding businesses. Jamming or interference with business operations might provoke a flight of capital. Hong Kong is rather concentrated.

The police can blame the protesters for all the troubles - block traffic, stopping commerce, blocking cell/wifi/BT service. From what I read, not much different than the police strategy used the 99% protest in Wall Street.

Re: How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

#38

Post by tszming »

Used firechat in the area yesterday, I think there are two issues:

1. information overload, hard to catch up the messages from all the people

2. some people are spreading rumors and fake information.

It would be great if we still can use the underlying network but have a way to filter out information (e.g. mgs from friends or friends or friends only)

Re: How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

#39

Post by jtzhou »

McDoku wrote: post #31
__P wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't really read the "outside foreign forces" line in chinese press. Where did you see that? Chinese understand their government and the Hong Kong situation. So I don't know why the government would need to lie about it? You are assuming the majority of chinese want a democratic government. I'm not sure that's true.

With out universal suffrage how can you tell the collective will with out an imposed narrative bias? Press is controlled and self censored. Many Chinese that I know simply stay clear of politics. Politics has very dark consequences in China. Even if you are a party member you can easily get caught up in an anti-corruption purge. Don't get me wrong, democracy is not a silver bullet... it is allot of work and imperfect…

Indeed, and posting to web forums, especially with connections to mainland China, can be risky due to the traceback of IP addresses, collected or "procured" by Chinese authorities. This happened even through the cooperation of Yahoo in Hunan Province.

I highly recommend using the Tor network for political discussions.

Re: How Hong Kong Protesters Are Connecting, Without Cell or Wi-Fi Networks

#40

Post by ximeng »

__P wrote: post #28
ck2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is good to hear but isn't state media now peddling that while the protests exist, they are being manufactured by "outside foreign forces" and not genuine? They are even calling for Chinese paramilitary to be sent it. That is scary.

I haven't really read the "outside foreign forces" line in chinese press. Where did you see that? Chinese understand their government and the Hong Kong situation. So I don't know why the government would need to lie about it? You are assuming the majority of chinese want a democratic government. I'm not sure that's true.

http://paper.wenweipo.com/2014/09/27/HK1409270007.htm

傅振中並向警方舉報，本月5日，署名「民主真兄弟」的市民在互聯網揭露反對派公然勾結外國勢力，其中指稱有美國駐港領事館人員向香港中學生及大專生領袖稱，即使他們有非法行為也「不用擔心」，因為「美國會給予他們去外國留學及定居的機會」，令人懷疑美國直接用利益去引誘香港青少年去做違法行為。

Basically saying that the American consulate told secondary school students that they don't need to worry about illegal behaviour because they can study and settle in the US.

The outside foreign forces line is very common though - the above is one example from a quick search.

Also I don't see the assumption in the parent that majority of Chinese want a democratic government.

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