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The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

nytimes.com

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Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#31

Post by [deleted] »

pjbrunet wrote: post #24
greenyoda wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're quite a bit farther away from self-driving semis than from self-driving cars. Big trucks are much more dangerous vehicles than cars: their braking distances are much longer, their weight makes it possible for them to destroy any cars in their path, they can require multiple lanes to make a turn, many car drivers don't know how to drive safely near trucks, etc.

No kidding. I'll get downvoted for this but the Hacker News demographic hasn't spent much time on the road. Try driving down 710 toward Long Beach. Last time I lived down there, tons of trucks, tiny lanes, uneven pavement, completely insane. I want to see a self-driving car navigate Manhattan or Brooklyn during the day, normal driving rules do not apply there, New York drivers mean business ;-)

[deleted]

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#32

Post by x0x0 »

polarix wrote: post #5

> But corporate America has become so parsimonious about paying workers outside the executive suite that meaningful wage increases may seem an unacceptable affront. In this environment, it may be easier to say “There is a shortage of skilled workers” than “We aren’t paying our workers enough,” even if, in economic terms, those come down to the same thing.

And it's not like trucking is a good job. For that princely (!!!) $41k / year, you are often away from home. I'd bet you don't get comped for all the meals you eat on the road either, so there goes a bunch of money spent eating out, even if it is just at truck stop diners. If you have a family, and and your partner has a job -- as he or she must, given that shit salary -- knock $4-$10k/year off for daycare as well. I mean, I'm just stunned people aren't begging for these jobs. Not to mention that from some reading, and I unfortunately forgot the link, it appears that truckers have to choose between keeping their jobs or obeying safety regulations. But never you worry, if they get caught violating sleep requirements only they get in trouble, not the companies.

It's funny; this story is a perfect analogy [1] for [2] something [3] but [4] I [5] just [6] can't [7] think [8] of [9] what [10]. Meanwhile, true story: a former employer not only completely lied to me about what I'd be doing, but then threw a fit when I quit two months in. And sent potential engineering recruits a python puzzle with a naked woman in it. It's a shock why employers have trouble hiring is all I'm saying...

[1] http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB113210508287498432

[2] http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/11/1201127/-Facebook-C...

[3] http://www.forbes.com/sites/ayoomojola/2013/07/15/the-shorta...

[4] http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/11/technology/zuckerberg-tech-p...

[5] http://www.crn.com/news/channel-programs/240163468/nice-work...

[6] http://www.infoworld.com/t/h-1b/silicon-valley-leaders-unite...

[7] http://thehill.com/policy/technology/258985-microsoft-lack-o...

[8] http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/Real-estate-...

[9] http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2014/08/07/gasp_sfs_housing_ma...

[10] http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/blog/real-estate/201...

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#33

Post by crassus2 »

polarix wrote: post #5

> But corporate America has become so parsimonious about paying workers outside the executive suite that meaningful wage increases may seem an unacceptable affront. In this environment, it may be easier to say “There is a shortage of skilled workers” than “We aren’t paying our workers enough,” even if, in economic terms, those come down to the same thing.

If a business owner raises wages, he solves his labor problem but spends more money and reduces profit.

If instead he complains about a labor shortage, then maybe politicians will pass a law allowing more immigration and he will be able to lower his wages and increase his profit.

It's beneficial for business owners for there to be a general belief in a labor shortage but it is not beneficial for people to believe they are stingy.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#34

Post by thrownaway2424 »

dehmlow wrote: post #25
Havvy wrote: post #17

I've got family in the auto transport brokerage industry. Can confirm that there is a shortage of drivers.

I have some familiarity with the trucking industry in the midwest. I can also confirm that there's a shortage of drivers in the region. The funny thing is that at some companies, working some overtime (although under the safety limit), drivers can make ~$80k including benefits, which is pretty good considering the cost of living there.

I have a feeling that the energy boom is cutting into the supply of truckers. If you have any skills at all (welding, driving) you can top $100k in oil or gas fields, but even if you're a high school drop out with no skills of any kind you can pull down $60k just humping pipe from one side of rig to the other.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#36

Post by fred_durst »

Sorry, Swift's stock price is more about the horror show that is Swift's corporate governance. Especially CEO Jerry Moyes. The very fact that he'll keep his job after this dismal lack of forecasting is an example of how much corruption there is there. Honestly, I would not be surprised if it was intentional.

He had to step down 10 years ago due to insider trading with Swift shares. Now he's back after a they brought it private and then to a second IPO.

The stock tanked, in my opinion, because investors know they can't trust Jerry Moyes and Swift's board.

More fun stuff.

http://teamster.org/content/teamsters-warn-swift-transportat... http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/9796076/nhl-lawsuit-jerry-...

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#37

Post by afafsd »

qq66 wrote: post #29
greenyoda wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're quite a bit farther away from self-driving semis than from self-driving cars. Big trucks are much more dangerous vehicles than cars: their braking distances are much longer, their weight makes it possible for them to destroy any cars in their path, they can require multiple lanes to make a turn, many car drivers don't know how to drive safely near trucks, etc.

The promise of self-driving cars is that they will be better and safer drivers than humans. Wouldn't that imply that they would be even now suitable for high-skill, dangerous driving?

That's "the promise", yes, but delivering stuff is very different to promising stuff.

Planes are way ahead of trucks in this regard and could actually fly themselves from origin to destination most of the time, but we still keep a couple of highly-trained pilots sitting there to handle the rest of the cases.

A truck can kill nearly as many people as a plane, depending on its cargo and just how badly it screws up. In more common cases, though, I'm unconvinced by software's ability to figure out the best thing to do when it's travelling down the highway at 100 km/h and it sees something unexpected dash onto the road, with a better error rate than a human brain, which can at least immediately distinguish between humans and deer.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#38

Post by the_ancient »

thrownaway2424 wrote: post #28
fiatmoney wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"it doesn't take much in the way of skill to be a truck driver" It's harder than you'd think to do a perfect 90 degree backup of a full-size semi into a loading dock without jackknifing, or to develop the temperament to pay attention to a boring stretch of highway for 8 hours at a time. You're being trusted with a lot of valuable equipment and cargo, to say nothing of the insurance risk should you flatten someone's M…

That doesn't sound "harder than you'd think", it sounds about as hard as you'd think. I'm sure that particular maneuver could be taught to the most apt students over a weekend, and as the article points out anyone can learn this skill in 6 weeks. If the people they get in trucker school have a hard time learning these things, that's just another indicator that they need to put more money on the table to attract bette…

No the article says they can get the required government CDL in 6 weeks, Passing a CDL test is not much harder than a Reg Test, and many states have had people convicted of working with the schools in a Cash for Licence scams, the larges was in IL a few years back where a good % of all CDL's issued by the state of IL were simply paid for.

It take a hell of alot longer to become a proficient trucker. Long time truckers have nothing but disdain for these 6 week course drivers that are on the road.

I know when my father (who is a trucker) first become a driver I believe it was a 6mo or year long course with longer period as a "driver in training" with the company he was placed in, we was part of a driver team pair with an experienced driver. This was after being a driver for the US Army for 6 years driving a Deuce and half.

Today a Driver take a 6 weeks intro course and then it entrusted with 80,000 pounds going 65mph.... with no additional training.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#39

Post by tapp »

rmason wrote: post #35

I've got a good friend with his Masters degree who quit teaching school to drive a truck because it paid so much more. He makes a great deal more than $41 K a year. It must depend on the particular company and the alternatives where you live.

I researched this a bunch at one point. Some of the primary variables are:

* Licensure (e.g. if you have a Hazmat endorsement) * Route type (Long haul pays a lot more) * Driver's safety record * Employment status - Independent contractors who own their own rig vs captive employees Etc.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#40

Post by the_ancient »

dehmlow wrote: post #25
Havvy wrote: post #17

I've got family in the auto transport brokerage industry. Can confirm that there is a shortage of drivers.

I have some familiarity with the trucking industry in the midwest. I can also confirm that there's a shortage of drivers in the region. The funny thing is that at some companies, working some overtime (although under the safety limit), drivers can make ~$80k including benefits, which is pretty good considering the cost of living there.

The only people I know that can make that level of money is Owner Operators, and while gross my be 80K most of that ends up back in the truck.

If you know of a company driver making 80K a year let me know the name of that company

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