The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More • Hacker News Board

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#21

Post by the_ancient » Sat, Aug 09, 2014, 11:49 PM UTC

It is not a matter of paying "more" but changing how they pay

Most Truckers are paid by the mile... So if your sitting in traffic no pay (next time your stopped in traffic look around, how many semi's are sitting with you, most of those drivers are doing it for free)

Then there is load and unload time, which for some companies is non-paid, other is a nominal flat rate of like $35 that could take up hours of your day.

Then there is the "hours of service" which many companies require their drivers go "off duty" when they arrive at warehouse, but the warehouse required them to monitor the CB Radio to be called to pull into a dock, so their "sleep" time is taken up waiting to be unloaded, and they do this waiting for free.

Trucking companies need to end the practice of per mile pay, and start paying drivers Per Hour or a Salary (non-exempt) like every other company.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#22

Post by mjhoy » Sat, Aug 09, 2014, 11:49 PM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #12

kazagistar wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I understand, many places use trains for these purposes. It means that less drivers are needed and the cargo spends more time in transit. Alas, the united states has a fairly poor cargo rail system, which in fairness is due to its spread out geography in many places.

No, in the US the two systems are used for different things. Trucks allow point-to-point delivery. Trains are more useful for carrying bulk commodities. John McPhee has written some wonderful articles about modes of transport, and the people who work in them: http://www.amazon.com/Uncommon-Carriers-John-McPhee/dp/08654...

I was about to post about John McPhee, too, when I saw your comment. Excellent book, recommended.

Somewhat related, also great: Looking for a Ship.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#23

Post by the_ancient » Sat, Aug 09, 2014, 11:52 PM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #3

hughes wrote: post #2

Maybe transport & trucking needs to be automated. If there's a lack of labourers, why not fill in the gaps with self-driving semis?

Long-distance trucking seems like a huge and obvious market for autonomous vehicles. Trucks mostly travel along Interstate highways and drivers have mandatory rest periods. Usually that means the truck sits somewhere, sometimes with the engine on.

Most trucking companies are prohibiting idle running, they program their trucks to shut down after a given time if the truck is not moving.

Most rest stops have also started installing "IdleAir service" which supplies Heat, AC, 120V electric and in some cases Cable TV, at the drivers expense of course.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#24

Post by pjbrunet » Sat, Aug 09, 2014, 11:55 PM UTC

greenyoda wrote: post #11

hughes wrote: post #2

Maybe transport & trucking needs to be automated. If there's a lack of labourers, why not fill in the gaps with self-driving semis?

I think we're quite a bit farther away from self-driving semis than from self-driving cars. Big trucks are much more dangerous vehicles than cars: their braking distances are much longer, their weight makes it possible for them to destroy any cars in their path, they can require multiple lanes to make a turn, many car drivers don't know how to drive safely near trucks, etc.

No kidding. I'll get downvoted for this but the Hacker News demographic hasn't spent much time on the road. Try driving down 710 toward Long Beach. Last time I lived down there, tons of trucks, tiny lanes, uneven pavement, completely insane. I want to see a self-driving car navigate Manhattan or Brooklyn during the day, normal driving rules do not apply there, New York drivers mean business ;-)

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#25

Post by dehmlow » Sat, Aug 09, 2014, 11:59 PM UTC

Havvy wrote: post #17

I've got family in the auto transport brokerage industry. Can confirm that there is a shortage of drivers.

I have some familiarity with the trucking industry in the midwest. I can also confirm that there's a shortage of drivers in the region.

The funny thing is that at some companies, working some overtime (although under the safety limit), drivers can make ~$80k including benefits, which is pretty good considering the cost of living there.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#26

Post by thrownaway2424 » Sat, Aug 09, 2014, 11:59 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #20

polarix wrote: post #5

> But corporate America has become so parsimonious about paying workers outside the executive suite that meaningful wage increases may seem an unacceptable affront. In this environment, it may be easier to say “There is a shortage of skilled workers” than “We aren’t paying our workers enough,” even if, in economic terms, those come down to the same thing.

They are slightly different, though I agree that most of the time it's a matter of greedy or shortsighted executives being cheap or expecting workers to bear the cost of training. How they're different: you may well have a situation where the short term supply of workers is highly inelastic. In that situation, paying more won't help any shortage. And some jobs that you would think are elastic in the long term aren't…

For any individual trucking firm in a liquid market served by several such firms, the driver market is in fact highly elastic. If this Swift Transportation company which is featured in the article wanted to avoid a 20% decline in their share price, they merely had to walk into the break room at the competing trucking company and offer $10,000 spot bonuses to switch companies. Boom. Elastic.

Anyway, Swift's annual report says that driver wages as a fraction of revenue have fallen in each of the last two years, so it's their own fault if they came up short on drivers.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#27

Post by afarrell » Sun, Aug 10, 2014, 12:01 AM UTC

mjhoy wrote: post #22

idlewords wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, in the US the two systems are used for different things. Trucks allow point-to-point delivery. Trains are more useful for carrying bulk commodities. John McPhee has written some wonderful articles about modes of transport, and the people who work in them: http://www.amazon.com/Uncommon-Carriers-John-McPhee/dp/08654...

I was about to post about John McPhee, too, when I saw your comment. Excellent book, recommended. Somewhat related, also great: Looking for a Ship .

The Box, but Mark Levinson is also a great read. http://www.amazon.com/The-Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller/dp/...

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#28

Post by thrownaway2424 » Sun, Aug 10, 2014, 12:03 AM UTC

fiatmoney wrote: post #13

rayiner wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "worker shortage" concept is seriously one of the dumbest memes of corporate America. There's a ton of people out of work, and it doesn't take much in the way of skill to be a truck driver. Companies simply aren't paying enough for what can be a very demanding job.

"it doesn't take much in the way of skill to be a truck driver" It's harder than you'd think to do a perfect 90 degree backup of a full-size semi into a loading dock without jackknifing, or to develop the temperament to pay attention to a boring stretch of highway for 8 hours at a time. You're being trusted with a lot of valuable equipment and cargo, to say nothing of the insurance risk should you flatten someone's M…

That doesn't sound "harder than you'd think", it sounds about as hard as you'd think. I'm sure that particular maneuver could be taught to the most apt students over a weekend, and as the article points out anyone can learn this skill in 6 weeks.

If the people they get in trucker school have a hard time learning these things, that's just another indicator that they need to put more money on the table to attract better students.

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#29

Post by qq66 » Sun, Aug 10, 2014, 12:03 AM UTC

greenyoda wrote: post #11

hughes wrote: post #2

Maybe transport & trucking needs to be automated. If there's a lack of labourers, why not fill in the gaps with self-driving semis?

I think we're quite a bit farther away from self-driving semis than from self-driving cars. Big trucks are much more dangerous vehicles than cars: their braking distances are much longer, their weight makes it possible for them to destroy any cars in their path, they can require multiple lanes to make a turn, many car drivers don't know how to drive safely near trucks, etc.

The promise of self-driving cars is that they will be better and safer drivers than humans. Wouldn't that imply that they would be even now suitable for high-skill, dangerous driving?

Re: The Trucking Industry Needs More Drivers. Maybe It Needs to Pay More

#30

Post by thrownaway2424 » Sun, Aug 10, 2014, 12:05 AM UTC

pjbrunet wrote: post #24

greenyoda wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're quite a bit farther away from self-driving semis than from self-driving cars. Big trucks are much more dangerous vehicles than cars: their braking distances are much longer, their weight makes it possible for them to destroy any cars in their path, they can require multiple lanes to make a turn, many car drivers don't know how to drive safely near trucks, etc.

No kidding. I'll get downvoted for this but the Hacker News demographic hasn't spent much time on the road. Try driving down 710 toward Long Beach. Last time I lived down there, tons of trucks, tiny lanes, uneven pavement, completely insane. I want to see a self-driving car navigate Manhattan or Brooklyn during the day, normal driving rules do not apply there, New York drivers mean business ;-)

Sure, but the entire 710 just needs to be demolished. They should be moving those containers out of the port on trains, but they've got it backwards. They move the containers out of the port on trucks, to intermodal terminals inland where they get switched to trains. Completely backwards. If they just punched the railroads through all the way to Long Beach then they wouldn't need those trucks on 710 humping boxes to the Inland Empire.