I used to hear the term "cyber" when people didn't understand the internet. Now the only time I hear it is from the US military.
I used to hear the term "cyber" when it was the name of Control Data's mainframe series.
In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors
31–40 of 103 posts
Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors
#32So I can off some first hand perspective here. >Do the military "cyberwarriors" even have local admin rights on their machines? We don't, hell I don't even have access to some of the basic tools I need (i.e. version control) >Hackers don't sign up for active duty military. They do, I've met the smartest people I know in the military . The hacker types never stay though they either get kicked out because they don't wa…
I don't understand how the military cannot afford to compete with the private sector. This is where wars will be won now (or soon). It's pretty important to defend ourselves. And we have trillions of dollars...
Part of it is that the government doesn't want to, the other part of it is that the American people would shit their pants if they found out that a low-ranking Soldier was making 6 figures a year off of taxpayer money. People resent it when government employees make more money than they do. Also, in the Army, you make the same amount of money no matter what your job is. The people they used to have that were only qualified to do laundry 40 hours a week as a full-time job get paid the same amount of money as intelligence analysts and information technology specialists.
Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors
#33Civilian hackers have a solid intuitive understanding and can use that to select, build, and modify whatever tools they please according to their intentions, and use them however they want to. Do the military "cyberwarriors" even have local admin rights on their machines? Do they have the education necessary to think about systems and vulnerabilities and the requisite leeway to use that knowledge, or are they (as I w…
Special Operations forces are given considerable leeway to customize weapons and adjust uniform standards to the situation. I think the "cyberwarriors" would/should argue that their machines are their weapons and so should have similar latitude.
> I think the "cyberwarriors" would/should argue that their machines are their weapons and so should have similar latitude.
They have argued and lost because the big picture military only cares about PT tests, marksmanship, and hair cuts. No one important enough to change policy understands how computers work.
Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors
#34If we're trying to use uniformed military troops to hack servers remotely, we deserve to lose any 'cyber war.' They should be used to gain physical access to hardware and people, for the purpose of applying the xkcd decryption heuristic[1]. Leave the hacking to the experts. [1] http://xkcd.com/538/
>If we're trying to use uniformed military troops to hack servers remotely, we deserve to lose any 'cyber war.'
Not all Soldiers are incompetent. Some of the most brilliant people I've met are people that I met while I was in the Army. China has created numerous units that focus on offensive hacking, and they are wildly successful.
Now, to clarify, I'm not saying that we should have troops performing cyber attacks, I'm just saying that it isn't necessarily an endeavor that's doomed to failure. You seem to be making the assumption that people in the military can't be as good at something as a civilian. That's simply not true. There is a lot of talent in the Army, its just that the organization and its rules are making it hard to be effective.
Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Special Operations forces are given considerable leeway to customize weapons and adjust uniform standards to the situation. I think the "cyberwarriors" would/should argue that their machines are their weapons and so should have similar latitude.
> I think the "cyberwarriors" would/should argue that their machines are their weapons and so should have similar latitude. They have argued and lost because the big picture military only cares about PT tests, marksmanship, and hair cuts. No one important enough to change policy understands how computers work.
Only the Marine Corps and maybe Army really care about PT performance - from what I understand, promotions in the Navy and Air Force are based off of exams.
Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors
#36"suits and ties — or tie dyes and blue jeans" That says it all there, written by the navy times. Seems like there is a bit of a culture problem, and the perception of tech people by the regular army/navy/whatever. Apparently, anyone with deep technical skills in hacking computer systems is either a corporate drone, or a hippie.
How about Polos and Kakis?
Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors
#37Civilian hackers have a solid intuitive understanding and can use that to select, build, and modify whatever tools they please according to their intentions, and use them however they want to. Do the military "cyberwarriors" even have local admin rights on their machines? Do they have the education necessary to think about systems and vulnerabilities and the requisite leeway to use that knowledge, or are they (as I w…
Special Operations forces are given considerable leeway to customize weapons and adjust uniform standards to the situation. I think the "cyberwarriors" would/should argue that their machines are their weapons and so should have similar latitude.
The B-2 bomber pilots are closer to computer hackers... Hacking is long hours spent quietly trolling for marks and acquiring programs and contacts for your "bag of tricks".. With a few hours of frantic planting the hooks and grabbing what you can before the connection is cut.
Ideally, you're like the bomber pilots.. The first time you get noticed is when the bombs are going off and you're already got the data.
Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think the "cyberwarriors" would/should argue that their machines are their weapons and so should have similar latitude. They have argued and lost because the big picture military only cares about PT tests, marksmanship, and hair cuts. No one important enough to change policy understands how computers work.
Only the Marine Corps and maybe Army really care about PT performance - from what I understand, promotions in the Navy and Air Force are based off of exams.
USAF cares quite a bit about PT, as they're using it as a force-shaping tool (a way to get rid of people as they downsize).
For years there was debate between the weightlifters and the runners in Air Force leadership over the best way to ensure a fit force. The runners won, which is why a waist measurement is now included in the PT standards.
Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand how the military cannot afford to compete with the private sector. This is where wars will be won now (or soon). It's pretty important to defend ourselves. And we have trillions of dollars...
Part of it is that the government doesn't want to, the other part of it is that the American people would shit their pants if they found out that a low-ranking Soldier was making 6 figures a year off of taxpayer money. People resent it when government employees make more money than they do. Also, in the Army, you make the same amount of money no matter what your job is. The people they used to have that were only qua…
The base pay is the same, but don't they have all kinds of extra pay they can tack on for various reasons? There is combat pay, but I'm sure there must be more than that.
Re: In secret cyberwar game, reservist techies pummel miltary cyberwarriors
#40If we're trying to use uniformed military troops to hack servers remotely, we deserve to lose any 'cyber war.' They should be used to gain physical access to hardware and people, for the purpose of applying the xkcd decryption heuristic[1]. Leave the hacking to the experts. [1] http://xkcd.com/538/
>If we're trying to use uniformed military troops to hack servers remotely, we deserve to lose any 'cyber war.' Not all Soldiers are incompetent. Some of the most brilliant people I've met are people that I met while I was in the Army. China has created numerous units that focus on offensive hacking, and they are wildly successful. Now, to clarify, I'm not saying that we should have troops performing cyber attacks, I…
I mean no disrespect to the soldiery, but why use soldiers for this, and not the DIA/NSA/CIA/various other TLAs? I guess that's what I'm confused about. Grunts wearing camouflage sitting in front of a laptop trying to outbrain someone seems humorously perverse. It's like some high-level bureaucrat has it in his mind that 'cyberattack' necessarily means that the military has to do it, because we obviously use the military for attacking things.