Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 66 posts

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#31

Post by ggchappell »

michaelochurch wrote: post #15

Ecotopia (or Cascadia) has split irrevocably. Silicon Valley is not part of it. Far Northern California (which is Oregon-like in climate and culture) might be, but that's sparsely inhabited. Silicon Valley (an emerging city state with severe, criminal levels of private sector corruption in addition to public incompetence, both forces producing a housing crisis) is paper-belt in denial. It will never admit so, but the…

I think this phenomenon happens all over. Cities -- and regions within cities -- can have their own peculiar culture, while the culture of rural areas varies on much longer distance scales.

Because of this, I suggest that the idea that North American is best thought of in terms of regions might be an unhelpful one.

OTOH, the evidence from Facebook apparently suggests otherwise:

http://petewarden.com/2010/02/06/how-to-split-up-the-us/

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#33

Post by jaegerpicker »

toddsiegel wrote: post #8

Similar to the 7 States of Facebook which surfaced a few years ago. http://gigaom.com/2010/02/08/the-7-somewhat-united-states-of... Culturally some of these boundaries seem more accurate.

As an Ohioian who has relocated to Maine I would say that culturally New England (at least Portland and most of the other parts I've been to) is very VERY different culturally IMO. Much more liberal and, IMO, progressive than Ohio in general.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#34

Post by bostonpete »

michaelochurch wrote: post #16
bostonpete wrote: post #14

I'd carve off an additional nation stretching from Boston to D.C. Putting NYC in a declining industrial nation with Detroit as its capital seems puzzling even for 30 years ago...

I think Brooklyn was considered Foundry but Manhattan is its own city-state. Same with DC. "Mex-America" is a weird one (and why is the capital in the U.S.?) too. If Minnesota and Michigan are different nations, then Mexico (which is much more tribally, ethnically, and socioeconomically heterogeneous) cannot reasonably be cast as one bloc. Oaxaca, Mexico DF, the Yucatan, and Juarez are all very different places (just…

> Manhattan is its own city-state. Same with DC.

Yes, I see now that's described on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Nations

That makes sense then I guess. I initially questioned lumping Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island in with New England, but from what I know of those areas, it's probably not a bad choice -- they fit with southern NE as well as most of Maine does.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#35

Post by gyardley »

roberthahn wrote: post #2

Has anyone read this book? What were your thoughts on it?

Yes, I've read it.

It's possible to quibble with how some of the cultural areas are delimited. I would've drawn the lines differently - I think the divisions in Colin Woodard's more recent "American Nations" are more accurate (although also imperfect). The main takeaway is that the USA is incredibly culturally diverse, which is why it's so difficult to get things done on the federal level and why it'd probably be better served by even less centralization in government policy.

I found this book valuable, but for me it was preaching to the choir - it's pretty compatible with my own politics, and meshes with my own experience living in each of California, New York, and Texas.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#36

Post by freehunter »

BrandonMarc wrote: post #26
freehunter wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really irritates me, almost unreasonably so, that I cannot view a larger version of that map. And I've been searching for it since the first time it was posted. Take this post [1] for example, where it says "Click on the map to learn more". Clicking on the map refreshes the page. It also has a link that says "To make sense of the patterns I'm seeing, I've marked and labeled the clusters, and added some notes about…

Did you see Peter Warden's post? He's the creator of that map. http://petewarden.typepad.com/searchbrowser/2010/02/how-to-s...

Yup. And clicking the image there goes to fanpageanalytics.com, which seems to be a parked domain? There's only one page and it's completely irrelevant to anything.

His blog says he was almost sued by Facebook, but for making a site to crawl Facebook's graph. Obviously he's not being sued by Facebook for creating the image because the image is everywhere, but only as a ridiculously tiny version.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#37

Post by freehunter »

jessaustin wrote: post #12
toddsiegel wrote: post #8

Similar to the 7 States of Facebook which surfaced a few years ago. http://gigaom.com/2010/02/08/the-7-somewhat-united-states-of... Culturally some of these boundaries seem more accurate.

Yes, as distressing as it may be to me personally to live in "Greater Texas" (I thought we left the Big 12?), the "Nine" definitely screws up by splitting Texas into three pieces, the largest of which has a "capital" in Los Angeles . Had Garreau ever been to Texas when he wrote the book? I've lived there, and the conformity of certain assumptions and habits across the state and across cultural and income groups is so…

Then again, the actual capital of Texas is Austin, so it's not that far from reality.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#38

Post by dugmartin »

The map splits Illinois pretty well. I was born and raised in northern Illinois until I was 10, moved to southern Illinois and then lived and worked in Chicago after grad school. It is a very different state depending on where you live. I just went back to my 25th high school reunion and after living away for 20 years I was surprised at the southern "accents" some of my friends had.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#39

Post by s_q_b »

CodeMage wrote: post #23
cratering wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree except I feel that the "topia" suffix implies it's some sort of paradise. Given the controversy around environmental damage, something more ominous like "gasland" might be better.

The suffix is present both in "utopia" and "dystopia".

Bingo, thought it made a nice contrast with "Ecotopia."

The suffix is from the Greek topos (τόπος), meaning "place."

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#40

Post by pnathan »

nmcfarl wrote: post #7
roberthahn wrote: post #2

Has anyone read this book? What were your thoughts on it?

My dad loved it in the '80s, and I read it some time in the late 80s when I was in my tweens. I probably didn't understand a lot, and I've forgotten a lot, but that map is good, and I do use it a short hand a lot in my thinking to this day. Though I do think that some peopleº treat it as more than a short hand - and like all stereotypes it can cause more harm than good when actually believed. º I recently heard a bar…

Cascadia the idea appears to be growing in the Seattle region.

Can't say I entirely disagree: the PNW does have a definite bent to its culture (I've lived in PNW^H^H^HCascadia for about a year now - loving it so far).

Post reply on HN