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Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

nytimes.com

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Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#11

Post by jandrewrogers »

toddsiegel wrote: post #8

Similar to the 7 States of Facebook which surfaced a few years ago. http://gigaom.com/2010/02/08/the-7-somewhat-united-states-of... Culturally some of these boundaries seem more accurate.

Yes, that definitely captures some of the major culture boundaries more accurately. For example, no one would conflate the culture of California with the culture of Cascadia despite a few superficial similarities (like eco awareness).

My takeaway from the "Nine Nations" map is that it was created by people that have never actually lived or spent significant time all over the regions of the US, never mind North America, to have a frame of reference for the actual cultural differences. Some of the supposed cultural similarities are apparently based on popular caricatures of the rest of the US I see in places like urban New England. You can carve up North America on major cultural boundaries but it looks a lot more like the Facebook map.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#12

Post by jessaustin »

toddsiegel wrote: post #8

Similar to the 7 States of Facebook which surfaced a few years ago. http://gigaom.com/2010/02/08/the-7-somewhat-united-states-of... Culturally some of these boundaries seem more accurate.

Yes, as distressing as it may be to me personally to live in "Greater Texas" (I thought we left the Big 12?), the "Nine" definitely screws up by splitting Texas into three pieces, the largest of which has a "capital" in Los Angeles. Had Garreau ever been to Texas when he wrote the book? I've lived there, and the conformity of certain assumptions and habits across the state and across cultural and income groups is sometimes actually a bit unsettling.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#13

Post by AnimalMuppet »

roberthahn wrote: post #2

Has anyone read this book? What were your thoughts on it?

I read it, back in the day. In fact, I think I still have a copy.

I thought it made a lot of sense. I mean, you can take anything too far, and any place has a spectrum of people in it. Even so, as the author said, events happen differently in different parts of the country, and the difference is something you can describe.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#15

Post by michaelochurch »

Ecotopia (or Cascadia) has split irrevocably. Silicon Valley is not part of it. Far Northern California (which is Oregon-like in climate and culture) might be, but that's sparsely inhabited.

Silicon Valley (an emerging city state with severe, criminal levels of private sector corruption in addition to public incompetence, both forces producing a housing crisis) is paper-belt in denial. It will never admit so, but the negative aspects of California (mostly due not to locals, but to an area systematically attracting the worst of the East-- greedy businessmen who aren't capable enough to play with the big boys in NYC, so they move west) have moved north. The trash that the elite used to dump on Los Angeles is now being dumped on San Francisco, as failed McKinseys become VCs and founders.

It's definitely not Mex-America, either.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#16

Post by michaelochurch »

bostonpete wrote: post #14

I'd carve off an additional nation stretching from Boston to D.C. Putting NYC in a declining industrial nation with Detroit as its capital seems puzzling even for 30 years ago...

I think Brooklyn was considered Foundry but Manhattan is its own city-state. Same with DC.

"Mex-America" is a weird one (and why is the capital in the U.S.?) too. If Minnesota and Michigan are different nations, then Mexico (which is much more tribally, ethnically, and socioeconomically heterogeneous) cannot reasonably be cast as one bloc. Oaxaca, Mexico DF, the Yucatan, and Juarez are all very different places (just to get started).

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#18

Post by keithly »

taneliv wrote: post #9

I am not from Americas, and had never heard of the concept of Nine Nations. If you're equally lost with some of the terms ("Dixie"? "The Foundry"?) or the overall theory, this sheds some light on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Nations (but unfortunately does not provide links for some of the regions). Anyone know of a better online exposition?

"Dixie" generally refers to states south of the Mason-Dixon survey line where slavery was legal. This map's concept of Dixie includes some areas above that line and excludes some areas inside it, like most of Texas and Missouri. "The Foundry" seems like a euphemism for the more commonly used term "Rust Belt." It's an area that traditionally has had lots of heavy industry, but has largely been in economic decline in the last 20-30 years.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#19

Post by cratering »

s_q_b wrote: post #6

Very cool idea. Although the recent oil and natural gas booms are fast transforming "The Empty Quarter" into "Extractopia" where oil, gas, logging, and mineral extraction, which are already the main industries, are going to become an increasingly important driver of overall North American economic growth.

I completely agree except I feel that the "topia" suffix implies it's some sort of paradise. Given the controversy around environmental damage, something more ominous like "gasland" might be better.

Re: Nine Nations of North America 30 years Later

#20

Post by freehunter »

toddsiegel wrote: post #8

Similar to the 7 States of Facebook which surfaced a few years ago. http://gigaom.com/2010/02/08/the-7-somewhat-united-states-of... Culturally some of these boundaries seem more accurate.

It really irritates me, almost unreasonably so, that I cannot view a larger version of that map. And I've been searching for it since the first time it was posted. Take this post [1] for example, where it says "Click on the map to learn more". Clicking on the map refreshes the page. It also has a link that says "To make sense of the patterns I'm seeing, I've marked and labeled the clusters, and added some notes about the properties they have in common." When you click the link... still the same page.

What good is this Facebook Graph visualization without being able to see anything more than a low-res thumbnail?

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-split-up-the-us-2010-2...

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