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Mozilla just can't catch a break

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Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#31

Post by octatone2 »

mehwoot wrote: post #7

I don't know whether this is a joke or not, but what do you expect? Proposition 8 passed. A majority of people were in favor of it. You think those people would just rule out applying the same sort of pressure on mozilla that worked so effectively? This is why, despite supporting gay marriage, I think it is abhorrent that Brendan Eich was effectively forced to resign. He donated privately to a campaign that was suppo…

A majority of a certain population of people support something abhorrent. I guess that makes it okay.

Guess what, yes, your actions in private/public life have an effect on your employability and the success of your organization.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#32

Post by sliverstorm »

MetaCosm wrote: post #20
sliverstorm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No no, it's already been clearly established in these threads. The pro-gay-marriage side is the only side that gets to speak their minds, because they are the side that is right. That's how freedom of speech works, after all. Only the person who is right gets it.

You are free to say what you want, and free to deal with the repercussions. Everything can be framed as having two sides, but society at a certain point decides there isn't two sides. The "pro-interracial-marriage" side is the only side that gets to speak its mind these days, because they are the side that is right. Try coming out as against interracial marriage and you will be run out of your company on a rail, as y…

They aren't really the side that is right, they are just the side that has 99% of people. Gay marriage is contentious because it's practically an even split right now.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#33

Post by vixen99 »

octatone2 wrote: post #31
mehwoot wrote: post #7

I don't know whether this is a joke or not, but what do you expect? Proposition 8 passed. A majority of people were in favor of it. You think those people would just rule out applying the same sort of pressure on mozilla that worked so effectively? This is why, despite supporting gay marriage, I think it is abhorrent that Brendan Eich was effectively forced to resign. He donated privately to a campaign that was suppo…

A majority of a certain population of people support something abhorrent. I guess that makes it okay. Guess what, yes, your actions in private/public life have an effect on your employability and the success of your organization.

So you make an assumption and draw conclusions from it? Really?

If power is sufficient it can be turned against or for, actions - oh, I never guessed it!

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#34

Post by MetaCosm »

sliverstorm wrote: post #32
MetaCosm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are free to say what you want, and free to deal with the repercussions. Everything can be framed as having two sides, but society at a certain point decides there isn't two sides. The "pro-interracial-marriage" side is the only side that gets to speak its mind these days, because they are the side that is right. Try coming out as against interracial marriage and you will be run out of your company on a rail, as y…

They aren't really the side that is right, they are just the side that has 99% of people. Gay marriage is contentious because it's practically an even split right now.

61% of young Republican leaning Americans (18-29) support marriage equality. The issue is settled, the trajectory is clear, it is just a few years until it will all be shaken out and boring and stats about people being against gay marriage will be treated with awe and shock.

In 1986, only around 30% of Americans "approved" of interracial relationships -- now about that number have a family member IN an interracial relationship. Things move faster now, and in just a few years, the idea of being against same-sex marriage will seem just as insane about being against interracial marriage.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#35

Post by ftfish »

mehwoot wrote: post #7

I don't know whether this is a joke or not, but what do you expect? Proposition 8 passed. A majority of people were in favor of it. You think those people would just rule out applying the same sort of pressure on mozilla that worked so effectively? This is why, despite supporting gay marriage, I think it is abhorrent that Brendan Eich was effectively forced to resign. He donated privately to a campaign that was suppo…

Brendan Eich is a human/civil rights denier. Now that is abhorrent.

"It makes me very uneasy."

Oh no, I guess you're just going to have to be a decent human being from now on. Sorry.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#36

Post by charlieh »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #21
te_chris wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to live in a society where people with bigoted and regressive views are merely considered as a difference of opinion. Human rights are absolute. EDIT: So many downvotes, wow.

Communists violate human rights too. Bring back the blacklist?

Exactly. They've murdered more people than Nazis and, unlike Nazis, are still doing it on a large scale today (yeah, there are still "Nazis", or yahoos calling themselves such, but they're not running entire countries any more).

As far as I can tell from the the rationalizations expressed by the anti-Eich lynch mob, it's now perfectly okay to expose Communists and force them out of their jobs.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#37

Post by charlieh »

te_chris wrote: post #22
gf6554 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's either your way or the highway? For thousands of years, his opinion was considered the de facto. Are people now suddenly bigoted hate mongers for supporting the same view that President Obama supported just a few years ago?

So was slavery, what's your point? State sanctioned discrimination is not just a difference of opinion issue, to reduce it to that is patronising and insulting in the extreme to the people being discriminated.

You're deliberately missing his point.

None of this stuff happened until Dear Leader changed his position. Now, all of a sudden, being opposed to gay marriage is the Worst Thing Ever.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#38

Post by daveqr »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #26
smtddr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I probably shouldn't even bring this up. This whole thread will be knocked off the front-page shortly anyway... but I just had a heated debate with a coworker that's an Eich-supporter and found his logic disturbing and ethically broken when it expanded to views on racism, sexism, homophobia. But for all those people who support Eich and keep saying freedom-of-speech goes both ways even for "unpopular opinions": How w…

You'll note in that wiki article you linked, the Supreme Court has found hate speech restrictions to be unconstitutional. There's also the case where the ACLU defended the right of neo-nazis to march in a town with a heavy Jewish population. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_Liberties_Union#... Hate speech is often despicable, but Freedom Of Speech has traditionally been taken very, very, VERY seriously in…

This.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#39

Post by daveqr »

smtddr wrote: post #5
jasimq wrote: post #3

Freedom of speech goes both ways...

I probably shouldn't even bring this up. This whole thread will be knocked off the front-page shortly anyway... but I just had a heated debate with a coworker that's an Eich-supporter and found his logic disturbing and ethically broken when it expanded to views on racism, sexism, homophobia. But for all those people who support Eich and keep saying freedom-of-speech goes both ways even for "unpopular opinions": How w…

>Isn't the core of prop8 based on people who cannot accept >the LGBT community and want to keep marriage for >themselves?

Some people might feel that way, but there are arguments against gay marriage that have nothing to do with this. Some people feel gay marriage reduces freedom, some people are against the idea of government involvement in marriage, period (which is actually what I suspect Eich's view is), and some gay people are against gay marriage.

>Shouldn't society squash this kind of thing out of law?

Not just no, but hell no.

Re: Mozilla just can't catch a break

#40

Post by charlieh »

charlieh wrote: post #37
te_chris wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So was slavery, what's your point? State sanctioned discrimination is not just a difference of opinion issue, to reduce it to that is patronising and insulting in the extreme to the people being discriminated.

You're deliberately missing his point. None of this stuff happened until Dear Leader changed his position. Now, all of a sudden, being opposed to gay marriage is the Worst Thing Ever.

And my point is made for me.
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