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As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

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Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#31

Post by webwright »

coldcode wrote: post #2

In the end what matters in business is sustainable profit not marketshare. Of course if you include all of Apple's devices they have both. When I worked at Apple in the mid-90's they had neither and I gave up on them shortly before Steve came back. Aw, crap.

>In the end what matters in business is sustainable profit not marketshare.

With network effects and other market effects, sacrificing profit for marketshare for years/decades might be the longer/smarter play. For example, Amazon is happy to undercut their competition and lose money for years. Is that a bad decision? Remains to be seen, but if they'd focused on sustainable profit, I suspect they'd have a lot more competitors.

Walmart jumps into a new small-town and buries their competition with non-stop deep discounts. Competition closes, Walmart now has tremendous power to price however they want.

I think Apple's appetite for profit is awesome, but it leaves less room for their "partners" (carriers), which means every other player in the marketplace has incentives to push Android/etc. Result: http://www.statista.com/chart/1099/smartphone-operating-syst...

And from the existential side of things... Would you REALLY rather have the 40% margin business that owns 5% of the market or would you rather have the 1% margin business than owns 95%? Either way, you're a gazillionaire. I'd personally rather impact more lives.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#32

Post by chx »

ItendToDisagree wrote: post #24
FigBug wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, sure the PC won, but what did IBM get? 1.75 billion from Lenovo.

Isn't that 'just' for their server division? I'm fairly certain IBM is up to much more than hardware sales at this point. Although for awhile they were the eponymous PC manufacturer.

Nope, he means the 2004 sale of the PC business. The servers sale now is 2.3B.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#33

Post by nkassis »

Argorak wrote: post #26
ItendToDisagree wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 'free' if you buy their PC. The same way Windows is 'free' if you buy a windows PC from any PC manu who doesn't allow you to take it off the invoice. It is folded into the cost of the hardware at this point. So yes I can see what you're saying in terms of profits on the OS vs another OS. But it is not free (as in beer) exactly.

No, OS X is also free if you upgrade in contrast to windows.

Sure but he's pointing out that to get the free upgrades you had to pay for a license at some point that entitles you to free upgrades that Apple makes available.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#34

Post by sliverstorm »

ArbitraryLimits wrote: post #10
bigdubs wrote: post #4

This comment struck me: "He compared the PCs changing status to how trucks took a diminished role when the U.S. shifted to an industrial nation from an agrarian one." It seems myopic now as the F-150 is still the #1 best selling vehicle in the US. I do see the point of the PC as the 'utilitarian' device vs. the iOS devices as the more mainstream, recreational devices. The analogy was just bad.

F-150's aren't the "trucks" he's talking about. F-150s are cars for people who want to feel like they're in a truck. In fact I think by "truck" he pretty much means "trucks not sold directly to consumers." Like a semi, an actual delivery truck, MAYBE an F-450 in a pinch.

The farmers of Agrarian America did not drive semis and F-450's.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#35

Post by gress »

bigdubs wrote: post #4

This comment struck me: "He compared the PCs changing status to how trucks took a diminished role when the U.S. shifted to an industrial nation from an agrarian one." It seems myopic now as the F-150 is still the #1 best selling vehicle in the US. I do see the point of the PC as the 'utilitarian' device vs. the iOS devices as the more mainstream, recreational devices. The analogy was just bad.

The analogy was perfectly good. Everyone knew what he meant. He wasn't saying that the statistics of trucks vs cars will apply to PCs vs Other devices.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#36

Post by sliverstorm »

ItendToDisagree wrote: post #20
yslow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean I can legally run it in a VM or on a non Mac computer? Can I load Macs on bare PCs and sell it? http://m.computerworld.com/s/article/9110179/Apple_sues_Mac_...

Of course not silly! Cause free is a marketing euphemism for "You already paid for it with the purchase!" :)

Much like free healthcare ;)

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#37

Post by Argorak »

nkassis wrote: post #33
Argorak wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, OS X is also free if you upgrade in contrast to windows.

Sure but he's pointing out that to get the free upgrades you had to pay for a license at some point that entitles you to free upgrades that Apple makes available.

Which is also not true. I never payed for OS X, like as a line item on an invoice. I do cover the cost of manufacturing, as with _every other good sold for profit_ out there.

I do cover the cost of the software on the hardware, but the same is true for about any device I buy.

The thing is: Microsoft is trading software as a good. Even if I buy a machine with Windows, I can actually, in some legislations, ask for my license money back and my machine gets cheaper. So I didn't get Windows "for free". So their market is software and should be counted as such.

Apple sells hardware as a good and doesn't ask for any fee for the software that comes with it. So that element is free. Even if I would ask for my money back, the answer would be "sure, here's your 0 Dollar".

Yes, it is an accounting question, especially because in the Microsoft case, your vendor pays the fee for you immediately.

You cannot buy an OS X license anywhere anymore.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#38

Post by hindsightbias »

bigdubs wrote: post #4

This comment struck me: "He compared the PCs changing status to how trucks took a diminished role when the U.S. shifted to an industrial nation from an agrarian one." It seems myopic now as the F-150 is still the #1 best selling vehicle in the US. I do see the point of the PC as the 'utilitarian' device vs. the iOS devices as the more mainstream, recreational devices. The analogy was just bad.

The vast majority of F-150 drivers do not need their truck. They're urban cowboys and their truck has never seen a ranch road, hauled a boat or carried a load of dirt.

The vast majority of PC consumers will not need another PC, but many may still buy them.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#39

Post by gress »

webwright wrote: post #31
coldcode wrote: post #2

In the end what matters in business is sustainable profit not marketshare. Of course if you include all of Apple's devices they have both. When I worked at Apple in the mid-90's they had neither and I gave up on them shortly before Steve came back. Aw, crap.

>In the end what matters in business is sustainable profit not marketshare. With network effects and other market effects, sacrificing profit for marketshare for years/decades might be the longer/smarter play. For example, Amazon is happy to undercut their competition and lose money for years. Is that a bad decision? Remains to be seen, but if they'd focused on sustainable profit, I suspect they'd have a lot more com…

It sounds as though you think the best way to impact more lives is to use predatory pricing to drive the competition out of business in order to establish a monopoly.

It's logically true that this might work as a strategy, but it's rather depressing.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#40

Post by hk__2 »

ItendToDisagree wrote: post #20
yslow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean I can legally run it in a VM or on a non Mac computer? Can I load Macs on bare PCs and sell it? http://m.computerworld.com/s/article/9110179/Apple_sues_Mac_...

Of course not silly! Cause free is a marketing euphemism for "You already paid for it with the purchase!" :)

Except that you don’t pay for OSX upgrades.
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