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As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

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Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#21

Post by ItendToDisagree »

aestra wrote: post #19
ItendToDisagree wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because... Reasons... The headline doesn't look as clickbait-y otherwise most likely. Or because Microsoft doesn't make "PCs"(well not really) and Mac does. But MS does make devices/phones/Xbox (which is a PC in console's clothing). Edit: I'm glad that they at least lump it in with PCs now though... It used to be that people would get angry if you called their Apple Computer a PC. But now that they are just Intel PCs…

>It used to be that people would get angry if you called their Apple Computer a PC People still get angry if you call their Apple branded personal computer a PC and will argue with you forever about why it isn't one. It makes as much sense as saying the iPhone isn't a phone and the iPad isn't a tablet.

I notice that this is changing (albeit very slowly) and people generally give up the argument when you point out to them that any Intel based PC can run OSX (and any mac can natively run windows) because Apple PCs are just Intel computers with different shells.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#22

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

yslow wrote: post #17
hk__2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS X is free now.

Does that mean I can legally run it in a VM or on a non Mac computer? Can I load Macs on bare PCs and sell it? http://m.computerworld.com/s/article/9110179/Apple_sues_Mac_...

It's free as in, new updates will be available for no cost. This has no relation with the EULA.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#23

Post by stephencanon »

gregpilling wrote: post #8
sosborn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The F-150 might be the best selling vehicle, but are trucks the largest selling segment?

Yes. "light-truck share at 51.2 percent with sales up 10.4 percent from last year." https://www.nada.org/Publications/NADADATA/

“light trucks” is a category that includes both things that are obviously “trucks” (F-150, Tacoma, Ram, etc) and things that no sane person would ever call a truck in casual conversation, but are classified as such by the manufacturer (Outback, CR-V, Odyssey, etc).

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#24

Post by ItendToDisagree »

FigBug wrote: post #13
sosborn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In the end what matters in business is sustainable profit not marketshare. It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't get this. They are so concerned with "winning" that they lose sight of what's important.

Yup, sure the PC won, but what did IBM get? 1.75 billion from Lenovo.

Isn't that 'just' for their server division?

I'm fairly certain IBM is up to much more than hardware sales at this point. Although for awhile they were the eponymous PC manufacturer.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#25

Post by ItendToDisagree »

ArbitraryLimits wrote: post #10
bigdubs wrote: post #4

This comment struck me: "He compared the PCs changing status to how trucks took a diminished role when the U.S. shifted to an industrial nation from an agrarian one." It seems myopic now as the F-150 is still the #1 best selling vehicle in the US. I do see the point of the PC as the 'utilitarian' device vs. the iOS devices as the more mainstream, recreational devices. The analogy was just bad.

F-150's aren't the "trucks" he's talking about. F-150s are cars for people who want to feel like they're in a truck. In fact I think by "truck" he pretty much means "trucks not sold directly to consumers." Like a semi, an actual delivery truck, MAYBE an F-450 in a pinch.

F150s are driven and used in MANY (perhaps most) capacities as trucks, for hauling/towing/etc, particularly outside the city. An F450 is a specialized Truck that is in a whole different price class and intention.

That's a bit like saying a Mercedes E300 isn't a luxury sedan, the only luxury sedan is a Bentley.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#26

Post by Argorak »

ItendToDisagree wrote: post #14
hk__2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS X is free now.

It is 'free' if you buy their PC. The same way Windows is 'free' if you buy a windows PC from any PC manu who doesn't allow you to take it off the invoice. It is folded into the cost of the hardware at this point. So yes I can see what you're saying in terms of profits on the OS vs another OS. But it is not free (as in beer) exactly.

No, OS X is also free if you upgrade in contrast to windows.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#27

Post by yslow »

acdha wrote: post #16
yslow wrote: post #9

Why are Microsoft's profits from Windows excluded from the numbers while profits from OS X are included? Why isn't MS considered part of the PC industry?

Microsoft doesn't sell much hardware directly. What you're seeing is a sign that this will change — and that every major PC vendor is probably now wishing they'd invested significantly in software back when they had the profits to do so because that's the only way off of the lowest-price treadmill. Microsoft is already trying things like Surface to compete with Apple directly – I'm sure they actively weigh the benefi…

>Microsoft doesn't sell much hardware directly

But you're still comparing profits from (OS + hardware) to (hardware) by not including Windows' profits.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#28

Post by ItendToDisagree »

stephencanon wrote: post #23
gregpilling wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. "light-truck share at 51.2 percent with sales up 10.4 percent from last year." https://www.nada.org/Publications/NADADATA/

“light trucks” is a category that includes both things that are obviously “trucks” (F-150, Tacoma, Ram, etc) and things that no sane person would ever call a truck in casual conversation, but are classified as such by the manufacturer (Outback, CR-V, Odyssey, etc).

I think that has changed since 2006ish. Outback/CR-V, etc are now classified as Crossovers (at least for sales purposes).

The light duty truck classification has to do with loaded weight rather than anything else as far as I remember... But maybe that has changed also?

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#29

Post by ItendToDisagree »

Argorak wrote: post #26
ItendToDisagree wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 'free' if you buy their PC. The same way Windows is 'free' if you buy a windows PC from any PC manu who doesn't allow you to take it off the invoice. It is folded into the cost of the hardware at this point. So yes I can see what you're saying in terms of profits on the OS vs another OS. But it is not free (as in beer) exactly.

No, OS X is also free if you upgrade in contrast to windows.

Not really a good comparison given that OSX 'upgrades' are available on a yearly (sometimes bi-yearly) basis. Which is about the same time span as Service Packs which are free.

And you've still paid for the hardware, which is where the price is wrapped into, since about Snow Leopard.

Not saying it isn't good (I am a half-time Mac user). But calling it 'free' is not entirely the case. I used to get pretty annoyed at having to pay for a new version of OSX from 10.2-10.5 every year or so.

Re: As the Mac Turns 30, Apple Ponders ‘Post-PC’ Era

#30

Post by stephencanon »

ItendToDisagree wrote: post #28
stephencanon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“light trucks” is a category that includes both things that are obviously “trucks” (F-150, Tacoma, Ram, etc) and things that no sane person would ever call a truck in casual conversation, but are classified as such by the manufacturer (Outback, CR-V, Odyssey, etc).

I think that has changed since 2006ish. Outback/CR-V, etc are now classified as Crossovers (at least for sales purposes). The light duty truck classification has to do with loaded weight rather than anything else as far as I remember... But maybe that has changed also?

I thought I remembered something like that too, but when I looked around I found lots of announcements like the following (July 2013): "Honda light trucks posted record June sales on the strength of CR-V, Pilot and Odyssey”. (To say nothing of the absurdity that > 50% of Acura sales are “trucks”).

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=7269-en

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