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Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

nytimes.com

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Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#31

Post by harryh »

stefan_kendall wrote: post #23
justin66 wrote: post #20

There's an interesting discontinuity here: - he's got a full workload (not a universal amongst adjuncts) and so the guy's skills are clearly in demand - he's taking home peanuts - students are paying a lot more in tuition than they ever did In this, as in so many areas of business, the consumer (the student in this case) might wonder where all the money is going.

Different markets. Demand for the jobs is high, and supply is low. This keeps pay low. Compare to tuition. Demand has been increasing over the last decade, and supply has remained relatively fixed or grown slowly. As more students seek to acquire trash art history degrees, price has risen to match the demand.

I understand and agree with you here, but that still leaves the question: where does all the money go?

Most universities aren't for profit institutions churning out dividends for shareholders, so it's gotta be going somewhere internal to the schools.

I'm honestly a bit mystified.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#32

Post by bashinator »

oulipian wrote: post #27
fecklessyouth wrote: post #16

I don't see why there isn't a bigger push to move all these jobless PhDs to high school teaching positions. They'll make more money and get better benefits than what they get as an adjunct. They won't necessarily get much time to "research," but with their own knowledge and experience, lesson planning should be a breeze. More importantly, they'll be bringing something vitally important to high school education: instr…

I don't see why there isn't a bigger push to move all these underemployed programmers to careers as cashiers. They'll make more money and get better benefits than what they get as an underemployed programmer. They won't necessarily get much time to "solve problems," but with their typing and math skills, cashiering should be a breeze!

Where are all these underemployed programmers?

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#33

Post by jessriedel »

plg wrote: post #13

It sounds crass but modern academia is becoming like most other professions, i.e. simply getting credentialed (i.e. getting your Ph.D.) does not mean you can count on a tenure track academic faculty position. These positions are highly competitive. Listen. At least it's not like many places in Europe (Italy? Germany?) where it's basically an old boys club and someone senior has to literally die before another positio…

> Again not to be crass but another pattern I see in modern academia is an unwillingness to move, to take on a job. "I grew up in NYC, my family is here, and goddamnit I want a faculty position here too, not in Ohio or Nebraska or Arizona".

Maybe you're confusing New Yorkers for everyone else? (In which case, this has everything to do with the NYC culture and nothing to do with academics.) I have met very few industries in which workers will desperately move as far and wide as in academia.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#34

Post by ForHackernews »

fecklessyouth wrote: post #16

I don't see why there isn't a bigger push to move all these jobless PhDs to high school teaching positions. They'll make more money and get better benefits than what they get as an adjunct. They won't necessarily get much time to "research," but with their own knowledge and experience, lesson planning should be a breeze. More importantly, they'll be bringing something vitally important to high school education: instr…

High school teaching also pays miserably in many places.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#35

Post by smtddr »

venus wrote: post #11
javert wrote: post #3

What do you call a 42 year old, with a wife, a toddler and mounting credit card debt who got an English PhD 18 months ago? Either someone who completely failed to plan ahead, or someone who wanted to knowingly gamble everything to "follow his dream." Either is fine---just don't ask society to bail you out. A growing gap between 0 and the top is not inherently a problem---in fact it is necessary in a free market that…

Your username matches your comment - harsh, unempathetic, and blind to a larger, kinder view of society as you pursue a simplistic, black and white ethical code. Your willingness to throw people to the wolves because they've pursued their dreams without strict pragmatism about their career prospects is disturbing, to say the least. Do you really think society will be better off without any English professors? Artists…

https://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&q=javert+rich

Just read a couple of those and you'll have a good idea about the kind of person you're dealing with here.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#37

Post by HarryHirsch »

plg wrote: post #13

It sounds crass but modern academia is becoming like most other professions, i.e. simply getting credentialed (i.e. getting your Ph.D.) does not mean you can count on a tenure track academic faculty position. These positions are highly competitive. Listen. At least it's not like many places in Europe (Italy? Germany?) where it's basically an old boys club and someone senior has to literally die before another positio…

Did someone promise this guy 15 yrs ago when he started on this journey that he would land in a tenure track job? Did someone tell him that it's not competitive? I don't think so.

I don't know about the humanities, but up to about 2009 with a PhD in the sciences from a second-tier institution you could get a tenure-track job at another second-tier university or four-year college. That was the typical career track, because industry recruits only from top institutions at PhD level.

Then the funding crisis struck, and while universities are increasing enrollment (with the students shooting mostly for pre-med at my state school) they are no longer hiring for tenure-track positions, it's now untenured lecturers or part-time adjuncts.

Universities have found out that they can hire at lower salary levels because of plentiful supply, and they do not mind that quality of instruction is suffering. It is suffering because as a lecturer you are moving around every three years looking for a better deal and the first year is spent getting used to the syllabus at the new place, and if you are teaching three sections at three different places to make ends meet as an adjunct you just can't be good.

It's strange that the students don't mind that they are getting less of an education, but they really don't mind.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#38

Post by forkandwait »

fecklessyouth wrote: post #16

I don't see why there isn't a bigger push to move all these jobless PhDs to high school teaching positions. They'll make more money and get better benefits than what they get as an adjunct. They won't necessarily get much time to "research," but with their own knowledge and experience, lesson planning should be a breeze. More importantly, they'll be bringing something vitally important to high school education: instr…

Many PhD's would probably teach high school, except for the ridiculous credentialing programs / teacher licensing requirements. Basically you have to get a 1.5 year education degree to "qualify" to teach a subject; yes, you can have a PhD in math from Princeton and be unqualified to teach 9th grade math in Trenton. Makes me want to vomit.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#39

Post by harryh »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #37
plg wrote: post #13

It sounds crass but modern academia is becoming like most other professions, i.e. simply getting credentialed (i.e. getting your Ph.D.) does not mean you can count on a tenure track academic faculty position. These positions are highly competitive. Listen. At least it's not like many places in Europe (Italy? Germany?) where it's basically an old boys club and someone senior has to literally die before another positio…

Did someone promise this guy 15 yrs ago when he started on this journey that he would land in a tenure track job? Did someone tell him that it's not competitive? I don't think so. I don't know about the humanities, but up to about 2009 with a PhD in the sciences from a second-tier institution you could get a tenure-track job at another second-tier university or four-year college. That was the typical career track, be…

Students aren't, for the most part, paying for the instruction. They're paying for the certification.

Unbundling these two things would solve all kinds of problems. That's a pretty big challenge though.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#40

Post by forkandwait »

Academic institutions used to have most of their teaching done by tenured faculty, now they don't, and there is such an oversupply of PhD's (myself included) that they don't have to have to offer shit to get someone to take a class.

I think it is time for tenure to go -- give teachers and professors a three year contract, good pay, and the same basic working protections as everybody else. Fire the losers, promote the achievers, and (probably) eliminate a bunch of the imbalance.

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