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Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

nytimes.com

11–20 of 60 posts

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#11
post #3

What do you call a 42 year old, with a wife, a toddler and mounting credit card debt who got an English PhD 18 months ago? Either someone who completely failed to plan ahead, or someone who wanted to knowingly gamble everything to "follow his dream." Either is fine---just don't ask society to bail you out. A growing gap between 0 and the top is not inherently a problem---in fact it is necessary in a free market that…

Your username matches your comment - harsh, unempathetic, and blind to a larger, kinder view of society as you pursue a simplistic, black and white ethical code.

Your willingness to throw people to the wolves because they've pursued their dreams without strict pragmatism about their career prospects is disturbing, to say the least. Do you really think society will be better off without any English professors? Artists? Dreamers? Of course not. So this guy's problem is indirectly everyone's problem.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#12
post #8
post #5

It's an unfortunate predicament, and one for which I don't see any particularly simple solutions. First of all, this is hardly a problem that's exclusive to "liberal arts" PhDs. However, it's probably exacerbated in their case due to the often limited market demand for their skills. What solution, other than some form of guaranteed job, is viable? Subsidizing PhDs lifetime employment with public funds would be messy…

"Universities only admitting as many PhDs as they could possibly absorb" This is an excellent idea, and I've also been a proponent of pushing liberal arts minors in combination with other degrees that provide a much more employability. Neither of these ideas will be embraced because each college department honestly believes their area of focus is the most important topic on earth. Add the desire of the college admini…

I'm not sure how it works in the liberal arts, but for STEM PhDs, it's not so much that they "believe their area of focus is the most important topic on earth" as much as they admit PhD students so that they have employees to do research.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#13
It sounds crass but modern academia is becoming like most other professions, i.e. simply getting credentialed (i.e. getting your Ph.D.) does not mean you can count on a tenure track academic faculty position. These positions are highly competitive.

Listen. At least it's not like many places in Europe (Italy? Germany?) where it's basically an old boys club and someone senior has to literally die before another position is available. At least in north america things are (mostly) still based on merit. You compete for jobs, the cream rises to the top.

Again not to be crass but another pattern I see in modern academia is an unwillingness to move, to take on a job. "I grew up in NYC, my family is here, and goddamnit I want a faculty position here too, not in Ohio or Nebraska or Arizona". I'm sorry but again, wha??

Maybe this sense of entitlement is not adequately dismantled as young graduate students come up through the ranks, that's certainly an issue we can discuss.

Anyway I'm empathetic with the guy in the article, he loves to do X, he is highly educated to do X, and he can't get a top-tier job to do X and so he has to do X-light. Join the club, man. You think everyone who gets an accounting degree expects to work at the top firms? You think everyone who gets a law degree automatically expects to get the top jobs? Of course not. It's competitive. It's a jungle out there.

There's the issue of how long it takes to get credentialed as a PhD, and how it's an extra burden for a 40-something with a young family to not have job security. Sure that's true... but am I missing something? Did someone promise this guy 15 yrs ago when he started on this journey that he would land in a tenure track job? Did someone tell him that it's not competitive? I don't think so.

In fact I'm a bit on the peeved side about this guy, if he does have a young family, what the crap is he doing, why isn't he ensuring a more stable life for his family? For god's sake, get a stable job, do poetry on the side as a hobby like the rest of the world.

Anyway enough ranting, I'm sick of the elite class bellyaching about how they didn't win the lottery even though they bought a ticket.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#14
post #8
post #5

It's an unfortunate predicament, and one for which I don't see any particularly simple solutions. First of all, this is hardly a problem that's exclusive to "liberal arts" PhDs. However, it's probably exacerbated in their case due to the often limited market demand for their skills. What solution, other than some form of guaranteed job, is viable? Subsidizing PhDs lifetime employment with public funds would be messy…

"Universities only admitting as many PhDs as they could possibly absorb" This is an excellent idea, and I've also been a proponent of pushing liberal arts minors in combination with other degrees that provide a much more employability. Neither of these ideas will be embraced because each college department honestly believes their area of focus is the most important topic on earth. Add the desire of the college admini…

No it's not... there are many more job-types available for PhDs than academia, so tying it directly to how many that particular school could support isn't a good strategy.

Is a school only to admit a graduate student when one of their tenured faculty is ready to retire?

Sure there are more graduate students than jobs available, especially in academia, but it's not necessarily a good idea to tie admissions directly to something like that.

It makes less sense in the sciences where graduate students are typically the ones that do the experiments that the PI is interested in and keep a lab running and funded (Post-docs usually have a little more independence in their projects). But, one thing that naturally limits the number of graduate students in the sciences is that those positions are usually funded. So, if a department wants to admit a student, they had better make sure that there is some way to pay for them. That naturally limits the number of graduate students that a program can handle at any one time.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#15
I'm genuinely curious how universities are allocating their money such that these adjunct professors who are teaching more classes with more students, who are paying ever growing tuition themselves, are still living below the poverty line. Is there just enormous waste in the system or is there some complication between the supply and demand of people and PhD-level academic positions?

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#16
I don't see why there isn't a bigger push to move all these jobless PhDs to high school teaching positions. They'll make more money and get better benefits than what they get as an adjunct. They won't necessarily get much time to "research," but with their own knowledge and experience, lesson planning should be a breeze.

More importantly, they'll be bringing something vitally important to high school education: instructors who are passionate about their subject, and well-equipped to improve students' skills. They'll still get exposure to their beloved subject, but also spread that exposure to those who need it.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#17
post #11
post #3

What do you call a 42 year old, with a wife, a toddler and mounting credit card debt who got an English PhD 18 months ago? Either someone who completely failed to plan ahead, or someone who wanted to knowingly gamble everything to "follow his dream." Either is fine---just don't ask society to bail you out. A growing gap between 0 and the top is not inherently a problem---in fact it is necessary in a free market that…

Your username matches your comment - harsh, unempathetic, and blind to a larger, kinder view of society as you pursue a simplistic, black and white ethical code. Your willingness to throw people to the wolves because they've pursued their dreams without strict pragmatism about their career prospects is disturbing, to say the least. Do you really think society will be better off without any English professors? Artists…

Absolutely wrong. My viewpoint is the MOST empathetic, loving and kind. Here is why.

What is better for a person at the bottom of the economic ladder who wants to pursue actual values---happiness and prosperity---instead of simply languishing?

The answer is a free market and a booming, robust economy.

What about the ones who languish? You literally can't help them anyway. Somebody who just lives on the dole and stays there is NOT going to have a happy life, no matter how hard you try to help them.

Therefore, as a society, we should always choose freedom and the concommitant prosperity over egalitarianism, which just sacrifices those pursuing values to those who are helplessly languishing.

Also I'm all for artists, dreamers and English professors--that's why I disjuncted "willing to gamble." Which is quite reasonable if you're young and possibly even reasonable when you're 42, poor, and have a family---which is why I didn't pass judgement on this specific man.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#18
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are tons of high-paying jobs in the oil fields in Canada and the northern-middle US. But many people (not necessarily this guy, I don't know his whole story) would rather bitch and leech off society than go work.

There are tons of high-paying jobs for qualified engineers and tradesmen with relevant experience. Let's not pretend a guy with an English PhD can get a well-paying job in Fort McMurray without years of costly retraining. Even engineers without relevant experience (SAGD or at least site exp) will have a tough time getting O&G industry jobs. When the industry says "skill shortage" it means that engineers are starting…

Are you saying there are not plenty of jobs in the oil fields for people without highly specialized training? That was not my understanding but what I heard was just secondhand.

Anyway, it's just an example---there are still plenty of jobs out there for people who are willing to work hard, especially intelligent people, even if they don't have specialized training.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#19
post #15

I'm genuinely curious how universities are allocating their money such that these adjunct professors who are teaching more classes with more students, who are paying ever growing tuition themselves, are still living below the poverty line. Is there just enormous waste in the system or is there some complication between the supply and demand of people and PhD-level academic positions?

Anecdotally, but here they always seem to have money for some fancy building project or another, hell, over the ditch in Australia UTS is building a fucking Gehry! This all seems to happen despite staff cutting, increasing fees and declining research output.

Re: Crowded Out of Ivory Tower, Adjuncts See a Life Less Lofty

#20
There's an interesting discontinuity here:

- he's got a full workload (not a universal amongst adjuncts) and so the guy's skills are clearly in demand

- he's taking home peanuts

- students are paying a lot more in tuition than they ever did

In this, as in so many areas of business, the consumer (the student in this case) might wonder where all the money is going.

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