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Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

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Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#31

Post by enneff »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #27
mcv wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Google would say that teams that only consist of men, or white people would get $2K extra everyone would explode. Surely you can understand why? The industry is already dominated by white men. They (we, in fact) don't need extra support to enter and get accepted by the industry. We don't suffer lots of subtle forms of harassment and discrimination, simply for being different from the norm. I don't think money by…

Yeah. I'm sure women will "get accepted in the industry" much more if every man who looks at them is thinking "she's being given $2K extra for winning the same prize as me" or "I wonder if she's working here for her merits or because she took advantage of one of those positive discrimination programs". Brilliant idea.

I'm a man and I would judge a woman just as I judge a man: by their actions.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#32

Post by darkbot »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #27
mcv wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Google would say that teams that only consist of men, or white people would get $2K extra everyone would explode. Surely you can understand why? The industry is already dominated by white men. They (we, in fact) don't need extra support to enter and get accepted by the industry. We don't suffer lots of subtle forms of harassment and discrimination, simply for being different from the norm. I don't think money by…

Yeah. I'm sure women will "get accepted in the industry" much more if every man who looks at them is thinking "she's being given $2K extra for winning the same prize as me" or "I wonder if she's working here for her merits or because she took advantage of one of those positive discrimination programs". Brilliant idea.

Well, that's just in your head.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#33

Post by belorn »

enneff wrote: post #31
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I'm sure women will "get accepted in the industry" much more if every man who looks at them is thinking "she's being given $2K extra for winning the same prize as me" or "I wonder if she's working here for her merits or because she took advantage of one of those positive discrimination programs". Brilliant idea.

I'm a man and I would judge a woman just as I judge a man: by their actions.

While a noble view, its is obviously not shared by Google. They would rather judge a woman on the basis that she is a woman.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#35

Post by belorn »

lclarkmichalek wrote: post #29
xiaoma wrote: post #25

What about men who have financial need? This isn't an academic question. The tech industry is one of the very few left where large numbers of men from diverse backgrounds are doing well. For many who are struggling, it's the best shot they have. Men receive less financial aid for college and graduate with more debt... if they graduate. Women now outnumber men 3 to 2 in current graduating classes in the US. Far more m…

Given that this is for an institution called `Hacker School`, and I have a feeling that your stats aren't P(x | studying CS), I don't really see how this is particularly relevant. The grant isn't give as part of a `help women in financial need` project, it's given as part of a `help increase the proportion of people in the tech industry who are women`.

If you want to increase the proportion of people in the tech industry who are women, do out reach, eliminate glass ceilings in management, and sponsor research into industry causes of gender bias.

Doing gender discriminations to "counter" gender discriminations is neither a good or effective way. It's lazy, and only causes more harm.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#36

Post by icecreampain »

As someone who hates equality and young women, I completely endorse this move.

This give me yet another reason to continue viewing women as helpless victims that want to be treated like children.

This will also aid me in my ongoing quest to raise questions about the real qualifications of non-white male in engineering careers: did they get the job because they're competent, or because of incompetency-compensating handouts?

And since I have yet to see a new-school feminist protesting the unfair treatment of princesses, I'll continue to assume that they're all OK with the discrimination. But wait... it's not discrimination if it gives you the upper-hand, is it, new-school feminists?

The old-school feminists I regularly speak to, those over 50 that fought to get from So Google, please continue your discriminatory practices so that I may use it as ammunition against new-school feminists.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#37

Post by sanxiyn »

knowitall wrote: post #30
sanxiyn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this simply to increase female participation? What does it have to do with "women are victims" message? Nightclubs are known to offer free entry to females. Isn't that to increase female participation? I don't think clubs are victimizing anyone.

Maybe you are right in this case. However, nightclubs need women because a major reason to go there is to hook up. What is the reason to bribe women into showing up at hacking competitions? Actual cynical me thinks "more sexy workplace" is part of the unspoken motivation for the "more women into programming" movement. But I don't think that is the official message they want to send out...

What's wrong with that? I'd prefer more gender-balanced workplace. My sister is a teacher, and she says female workers in female-dominated workplaces have pretty much same preference.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#38

Post by monsterix »

lclarkmichalek wrote: post #29
xiaoma wrote: post #25

What about men who have financial need? This isn't an academic question. The tech industry is one of the very few left where large numbers of men from diverse backgrounds are doing well. For many who are struggling, it's the best shot they have. Men receive less financial aid for college and graduate with more debt... if they graduate. Women now outnumber men 3 to 2 in current graduating classes in the US. Far more m…

Given that this is for an institution called `Hacker School`, and I have a feeling that your stats aren't P(x | studying CS), I don't really see how this is particularly relevant. The grant isn't give as part of a `help women in financial need` project, it's given as part of a `help increase the proportion of people in the tech industry who are women`.

Uh no it's relevant. I've applied to hacker school in the winter '14 batch; I hope to crack it, fingers crossed! But I don't know how I will live/sustain in New York if I do crack the interviews. I am currently in DC, not been in a job for more than a year.

I immigrated to US recently (August '13) burned all my savings to do so. Prior to moving here I was doing a product start-up that failed. Have had too much on the plate so I'm now stuck between a hard rock and a cliff.

While applying to Hacker School I was seriously meaning to tick the checkbox for financial aid (but it was disabled because one has to confirm "I am a woman" first). I do believe that women programmers need encouragement and an inclusive environment, but sometimes men need it too.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#39

Post by jrs99 »

mcv wrote: post #26
janjongboom wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very surprised about this. If Google would say that teams that only consist of men, or white people would get $2K extra everyone would explode.

> If Google would say that teams that only consist of men, or white people would get $2K extra everyone would explode. Surely you can understand why? The industry is already dominated by white men. They (we, in fact) don't need extra support to enter and get accepted by the industry. We don't suffer lots of subtle forms of harassment and discrimination, simply for being different from the norm. I don't think money by…

But the point everyone is making is that there is a white male out there that is poor and doesn't have the resources, time, and educational background, but has the intelligence, work ethic, and desire to learn more and get a job as a programmer.

But this guy out there will never be helped. There simply will never be a program for this person to get out of the rut that he's in.

But a woman with a Stanford degree may be able to get into these programs with a grant.

I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but that seems to be the complaint, that there is probably a better way to spend that money to help people.

my opinion is that when you start looking at individuals' situations in order to give that grant money out, then that's just going to much more complicated and cost much more money.

Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers

#40

Post by nailer »

evincarofautumn wrote: post #5

Nice to see a simple story of encouragement. My peer group is fortunately pretty diverse in terms of culture and country of origin, but it misses out on a realistic distribution of sex, which I think is important as well. As a “white male programmer”, I’ve always been uncomfortable with an imbalanced group; now, being in a relationship with a female programmer, I’m exposed to a lot more of the actual iniquities. We s…

> We should consider this as a high-priority bug in our industry.

Why? Primary education is overwhelmingly female, for example, but female schoolteachers do not consider the lack of men to be a problem with their industry which they should be ashamed of.

One should always judge the individual, and no person should ever be stopped from doing anything on the basis of their race, gender, or anything else. However part of that may mean accepting that, after looking at the individuals, more of them may belong to one group than another.

Personally, I'm not offended or sorry that early primary education is dominated by women. I think an excellent early primary education who is male should be able to each the heights of the profession, but I accept that biology may mean those who are interested in, or good at, the profession may be overwhelmingly female.

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