If only these things would work so that the whining could eventually stop.
Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers
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Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers
#22We need more women in the industry but I am not sure this is the way to do it. It is specifically for those "who cannot afford to live without an income during Hacker School." What does this mean exactly?
To me it sounds like getting those who are poor or not well off into programming. I like that idea as much as getting more women into programming. What I don't understand is why this would be limited to women only.
I have never been a fan of positive discrimination. Wouldn't it be better to advertise more to women to try to get more applicants this way? Perhaps go into local schools to rustle up a more diverse selection of people to be the next generation of programmers. Perhaps use the money to give away raspberry pi systems to the underprilliaged kids to inspire them to get going young?
It is nice of Google and it seems like a decent inititive. I do feel though that the money could be used in a far more effective way.
Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers
#23Nice to see a simple story of encouragement. My peer group is fortunately pretty diverse in terms of culture and country of origin, but it misses out on a realistic distribution of sex, which I think is important as well. As a “white male programmer”, I’ve always been uncomfortable with an imbalanced group; now, being in a relationship with a female programmer, I’m exposed to a lot more of the actual iniquities. We s…
As a “ programmer”, I've always been uncomfortable with race based or gender based or orientation based policies. Google would have been better off taking the time evaluating each participant and then making a judgement on whether that person would benefit from additional help. That would be better for everyone rather than blindly assuming every female needs assistance or every "insert ethnicity here" needs assistanc…
It's perplexing that to avoid gender discriminations, the solution is to discriminate against genders. I don't like these, I think they further the stigmatism that is native to our industry about gender discrimination.
Specifically I'm bothered by direct benefits due to gender, I have no issue with educational programs as long as they remain open to all.
I don't want to end up in a workforce where people are working because it was a good financial decision from yesteryear. I want to work with people who are truly excited about what they do. And choose it for no other reason then it was: fun, interesting, and exciting. Those would be awesome people to work with. Welcome!
Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
That actually seems rather unfair. Suppose a team consisted of 3 women and one man - that would have put them in an awkward situation.
Just give them 3/4's as much. $2000 * 3/4 = $1500. Simple really.
How about we give them 3/5ths as much...or ditch the discrimination all together.
Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers
#25What about men who have financial need?
This isn't an academic question. The tech industry is one of the very few left where large numbers of men from diverse backgrounds are doing well. For many who are struggling, it's the best shot they have. Men receive less financial aid for college and graduate with more debt... if they graduate. Women now outnumber men 3 to 2 in current graduating classes in the US. Far more men than women suffer poverty and homelessness. Amazingly, it's common for shelters to refuse single men.
Does Hacker School and its sponsor's "need based" help truly discriminate against the very group—poor, non-degreed men—that society treats so callously?
The last thing I want to see is women being dismissed or shut out of opportunities purely out of chauvinist ignorance, but when it comes to poverty and need it's almost like our society has empathy only for women and children. Recognizing this doesn't mean becoming blind to the glass ceiling that women often hit at the high-end of the career ladder. Both are problems. This really is an issue where two wrongs don't make a right.
Disclaimer: I earned well under $10k living in SF last year and faced some of this pain personally. I overcame the obstacles in my path and am now in a great situation... but I can't help but feel for those I know who aren't.
Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers
#26Google also give significantly more (+$2000) to female winners in Google Cloud Developer Challange 2013. https://www.google.com/events/gcdc2013/about.html
I'm very surprised about this. If Google would say that teams that only consist of men, or white people would get $2K extra everyone would explode.
> If Google would say that teams that only consist of men, or white people would get $2K extra everyone would explode.
Surely you can understand why? The industry is already dominated by white men. They (we, in fact) don't need extra support to enter and get accepted by the industry. We don't suffer lots of subtle forms of harassment and discrimination, simply for being different from the norm.
I don't think money by itself is the solution, but in order to make the industry more accepting of women, it helps if people get used to women in the industry, which means there need to be more women in the industry, which means some additional encouragement is probably necessary. Addressing the sexism in the industry in the absense of women doesn't seem to work very well. We need more women in order to become more accessible to women.
That said, I do think it's odd to do this through larger prizes for women in a contest. Encouragement programs and networking events seem like a better way to do this. Then again, in sports, it's generally male competitions who tend to have far more prize money.
Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm very surprised about this. If Google would say that teams that only consist of men, or white people would get $2K extra everyone would explode.
> If Google would say that teams that only consist of men, or white people would get $2K extra everyone would explode. Surely you can understand why? The industry is already dominated by white men. They (we, in fact) don't need extra support to enter and get accepted by the industry. We don't suffer lots of subtle forms of harassment and discrimination, simply for being different from the norm. I don't think money by…
Yeah. I'm sure women will "get accepted in the industry" much more if every man who looks at them is thinking "she's being given $2K extra for winning the same prize as me" or "I wonder if she's working here for her merits or because she took advantage of one of those positive discrimination programs". Brilliant idea.
Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers
#28Google also give significantly more (+$2000) to female winners in Google Cloud Developer Challange 2013. https://www.google.com/events/gcdc2013/about.html
I must admit things like that make me angry because of the implied "women are victims" message.
Isn't this simply to increase female participation? What does it have to do with "women are victims" message?
Nightclubs are known to offer free entry to females. Isn't that to increase female participation? I don't think clubs are victimizing anyone.
Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers
#29What about men who have financial need? This isn't an academic question. The tech industry is one of the very few left where large numbers of men from diverse backgrounds are doing well. For many who are struggling, it's the best shot they have. Men receive less financial aid for college and graduate with more debt... if they graduate. Women now outnumber men 3 to 2 in current graduating classes in the US. Far more m…
Given that this is for an institution called `Hacker School`, and I have a feeling that your stats aren't P(x | studying CS), I don't really see how this is particularly relevant. The grant isn't give as part of a `help women in financial need` project, it's given as part of a `help increase the proportion of people in the tech industry who are women`.
Re: Google sponsors over $150k of grants for female programmers
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
I must admit things like that make me angry because of the implied "women are victims" message.
Isn't this simply to increase female participation? What does it have to do with "women are victims" message? Nightclubs are known to offer free entry to females. Isn't that to increase female participation? I don't think clubs are victimizing anyone.
Maybe you are right in this case. However, nightclubs need women because a major reason to go there is to hook up. What is the reason to bribe women into showing up at hacking competitions?
Actual cynical me thinks "more sexy workplace" is part of the unspoken motivation for the "more women into programming" movement. But I don't think that is the official message they want to send out...