How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life • Hacker News Board

Re: How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life

#31

Post by girvo » Wed, Dec 04, 2013, 2:15 PM UTC

brazzy wrote: post #10

girvo wrote: post #2

The prosecutor should serve at least 25 years in jail for withholding key evidence and ruining this persons life. Christ these stories make me so upset. :/

Great. Now you know exactly how the jury felt when they ruined this persons life based on a complete lack of evidence that he committed a crime (never mind the withheld evidence against it). Quoth the article: "We all felt so strongly that this was justice for Christine and that we were doing the right thing," says Mark Landrum, who was the jury foreman. Righteous fury is the worst enemy of justice.

I'm not angry, I'm upset.

More to the point, the prosecutor is guilty, which is why he received 10 days in jail. I'm expressing that that should have been a larger punishment for the anguish he caused, and admitted to. On top of that, this time they have a stack of evidence, enough to exonerate someone, and the prosecutors actions got another person killed.

Very different circumstances, in my opinion. I do agree with your final sentence, however.

Re: How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life

#32

Post by melling » Wed, Dec 04, 2013, 2:18 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #21

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" That was said in 1765, I think we are regressing. Power hungry police and prosecutors are getting worse. They only care about making arrests and getting convictions, innocence doesn't matter. I am surprised that the prosecutor was actually charged and then convicted.

You are offering an opinion that has no basis in fact. Innocent people going to jail isn't a modern problem. We must certainly try to solve the problem but complaining that "power hungry police and prosecutors are getting worse" adds no value or intelligence to the conversation, and you can't even prove that we are worse off today than 100 years ago, for example.

Also, why would you be surprised that the prosecutor was charged and convicted? Wouldn't it stand by your reasoning that the other "power hungry prosecutors who only caring about making arrests and getting convictions" would jump at the chance to convict him?

Re: How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life

#33

Post by brazzy » Wed, Dec 04, 2013, 2:19 PM UTC

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #17

brazzy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Now you know exactly how the jury felt when they ruined this persons life based on a complete lack of evidence that he committed a crime (never mind the withheld evidence against it). Quoth the article: "We all felt so strongly that this was justice for Christine and that we were doing the right thing," says Mark Landrum, who was the jury foreman. Righteous fury is the worst enemy of justice.

There appears to be no shortage of evidence that Ken Anderson is a criminal. "The State Bar’s Commission for Lawyer Discipline wrote in its court filing that Anderson knew of the evidence and withheld it. The filing also alleges that Anderson made a false statement to the court when he told the judge he had no evidence that could be favorable to Morton’s claims of innocence." [1] [1] http://www.texastribune.org/2012/…

I'm sure that those who lynched some black dude whenever a white woman was murdered in the 1900s South also often sincerely believed there was no shortage of evidence.

The problem is that people let outrage over the seriousness of the crime guide both their evaluation of evidence and demand for punishment. Their want their offended sense of justice to be assuaged, but this leads to greater and greater injustice, as people are wrongly convicted and sentences climb ever higher.

Re: How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life

#34

Post by girvo » Wed, Dec 04, 2013, 2:20 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #25

brianbreslin wrote: post #22

Slightly (only slightly) off-topic: what is it going to take for us to see a complete or at least large overhaul of the justice system in the US? We're incarcerating too many people for minor crimes and it is causing a ripple effect on poverty and economic growth (not to mention ruining TONS of people's lives).

Can you be more specific? What minor crimes are you talking about? What's the breakdown of crimes for the the current prison population? Have any references to articles that have a deeper discussion so we can come up to speed?

Frankly, if you've got the highest per capita incarceration rate in the entire world, and is nearly 7X that of countries that are other first-world democracies (Canada, Australia, etc)... something tells me there is an issue, somewhere.

Re: How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life

#35

Post by aestra » Wed, Dec 04, 2013, 2:21 PM UTC

ghshephard wrote: post #7

monsterix wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about what percentage of incarcerated population in the US is innocent . US holds roughly 2.3 MM inmates in its prisons, that's highest rate of incarceration[1] in the world. Wondering if there is a way to put a number, or guess the percentage of innocent civilians serving jail time at any given point of time. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rat...

I'm also curious as to how many innocent americans are executed. Given the huge number of Prisoners who have been on death row and exonerated, there must have been quite a few in the past prior to technologies like DNA testing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrongful_execution Note - this doesn't even include those who were innocent, but not provably so.

Not too too many. There aren't very many executions in the US, is is losing popularity in public opinion and not practiced in all states. However, it is legal for federal crimes and military courts.

For example, New York had a death penalty in 1995 that was never used and declared unconstitutional in 2004. Since the death row has been disbanded by executive order and it is unlikely executions will ever take place in NY again.

43 immates were executed in 2012.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_Uni...

Re: How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life

#36

Post by girvo » Wed, Dec 04, 2013, 2:22 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #32

wil421 wrote: post #21

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" That was said in 1765, I think we are regressing. Power hungry police and prosecutors are getting worse. They only care about making arrests and getting convictions, innocence doesn't matter. I am surprised that the prosecutor was actually charged and then convicted.

You are offering an opinion that has no basis in fact. Innocent people going to jail isn't a modern problem. We must certainly try to solve the problem but complaining that "power hungry police and prosecutors are getting worse" adds no value or intelligence to the conversation, and you can't even prove that we are worse off today than 100 years ago, for example. Also, why would you be surprised that the prosecutor w…

The OP itself says that the prosecutor (now Judge) being convicted was a huge change in procedure. It never happens.

Based on your posts here, I'm getting the feeling that you are okay with the criminal justice system in the USA. You ask a lot of questions, I want to know what your stance is (honestly, I do!).

Re: How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life

#37

Post by middleclick » Wed, Dec 04, 2013, 2:23 PM UTC

> Morton was freed in October 2011. He was 57 years old. "I thank God this wasn't a capital case," he said.

I don't mean to turn this into an atheism debate, but personally, as someone who is an atheist, I find it fascinating how people still manage to have faith in God after such a case even after they spent 25 years of their life for a crime they did not commit. Don't get me wrong - the faith people have really amazes me and in a way, it helps keep them sane but it is fascinating nevertheless.

Re: How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life

#38

Post by girvo » Wed, Dec 04, 2013, 2:24 PM UTC

brazzy wrote: post #27

wavefunction wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the equivalency. The prosecutor abused his official position and the legal system to personally advance his career. If anything, we should hold our officials and authorities to even harsher standards to ensure equitable treatment under the law.

You are certain, after reading some newspaper articles, that Ken Anderson abused his position for personal gain, and the most important thing to you is that he be punished more severely. Your slogan: "an eye for an eye". Other people were certain, after reading some newspaper articles, that Michael Morton murdered his wife because she would not submit to him sexually, and the most important thing to them was that he…

No, they have evidence here. Quite a lot of it, in fact. Enough to get Mr Morton off his huge sentence. And enough for the Judge to step down, and plead guilty. Not equivalent, in my opinion.

Re: How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life

#39

Post by brazzy » Wed, Dec 04, 2013, 2:24 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #19

brazzy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Now you know exactly how the jury felt when they ruined this persons life based on a complete lack of evidence that he committed a crime (never mind the withheld evidence against it). Quoth the article: "We all felt so strongly that this was justice for Christine and that we were doing the right thing," says Mark Landrum, who was the jury foreman. Righteous fury is the worst enemy of justice.

I agree with your last sentence, but I think it's a bit out of place here. The OP didn't call for a disproportionate sentence. Prosecutor Ken Anderson deliberate falsified a case that cost Mr Morton 25 years of his life. A 25 year sentence for Ken Anderson would seem perfectly reasonable to me.

The OP is calling for a disproportionate sentence. 25 years is more than many murderers get.

It seems reasonable to you because you are in fact judging this case emotionally, not reasonably. Your empathy towards the victim causes you to want revenge, believing it to be justice.

Re: How inmate Michael Morton lost 25 years of his life

#40

Post by girvo » Wed, Dec 04, 2013, 2:24 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #20

forktheif wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, we should fix the systems that allow miscarriages of justice like this to happen. Yet revenge seems to be the first motivation of most people. Making things worse instead of making things better.

We should, but part of fixing the system that allows these things to happen is penalizing "bad actors." The prosecutor hid evidence from the judge, not just the defense. In addition, a brutal murderer is still free among the populace. What if they've killed again in the interim?

A brutal murderer is in jail. He did kill in the interim, and was caught for that... pretty sad, to be honest :(