Live data from Hacker News

NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

washingtonpost.com

31–40 of 614 posts

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#31
post #23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google had no knowledge of NSA's physical compromise of their data centers. Are we sure about that?

I think we have enough information for Google to plausibly deny involvement.

Sure, but the phrase "plausible deniability" just reeks of government and corporate double-speak: "you can't prove beyond a shadow of a doubt I did it, so I can keep on doing it." Plausibly denying something is just a propaganda technique.

Did Google know or not? Did Google participate or not?

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#33
post #3

"vice president for security engineering Eric Grosse announced that the company is racing to encrypt the links between its data centers. " Isn't this useless? They can serve Google NSL and the court can force the company to release the SSL keys for the encryptions - just like Lavabit. Google CEO/Board can not shutdown the company like Lavabit. What can they do, get out of USA like how they got out of China?

> Isn't this useless?

No.

> They can serve Google NSL and the court can force the company to release the SSL keys for the encryptions - just like Lavabit.

They can't do that without Google knowing about it, knowing what data is covered by the NSL and having the opportunity to challenge the request, or to factor the fact of the requests and the extent of information covered by it in evaluating Google's lobbying priorities.

> Google CEO/Board can not shutdown the company like Lavabit.

Well, it could (or, at least, it could recommend that course of action to the shareholders), but its true that Google is differently situated than Lavabit -- specifically, Lavabit doesn't have ~$50 billion in cash it doesn't know what to do with that it could pull from for political action to address government policy that it felt severely threatened the way it prefers to do business, whereas Google does, which gives it options to address known actions by a government agency that it doesn't like.

> What can they do, get out of USA like how they got out of China?

Well, its too big of a market for that to be a good first choice, but its not impossible. Moving the headquarters, etc., would be easy, the hard part would be moving all their existing data centers and similar operations out of the US.

If they wanted to do that with minimal disruption, they'd either need to build duplicate datacenters somewhere else and switch operations to those -- or, for less duplication, build a fleet of transport vehicles that could hold data centers, and piece by piece transfer their existing US datacenters into those transports.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#34
post #7

I hope that this finally convinces everyone that it doesn't matter whether Google is "Evil" or Yahoo is more evil or whatever. What matters is that large cloud systems are fundamentally incapable of protecting data. Even the most goodhearted and the most talented teams can't reliably defend against a massively funded adversary. Secrets are for keeping, not sharing.

Well, I don't think it's that easy.

If the NSA wanted your data, they could get into your network probably easier than they could get into Google's networks. Companies like Google have way smarter people (and working full time) securing data than most businesses.

For us to secure our networks as much as someone like Google would, we'd have to have a team of the best hackers around.

And by definition, the best hackers around are scarce. They're already working for Google, etc, and X Y Z security company.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#36
post #2

It's hard not to come to the conclusion that these activities were essentially criminal. I don't see how the administration can fail to disavow them, investigate them fully, and hold their instigators accountable. It feels like Special Prosecutor time. That aside, let me re-make a point I keep making: Google had no knowledge of NSA's physical compromise of their data centers. But still, they pushed harder than anyone…

See also, "Google speeding up end-to-end crypto between data centers worldwide."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6351741

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#40
post #2

It's hard not to come to the conclusion that these activities were essentially criminal. I don't see how the administration can fail to disavow them, investigate them fully, and hold their instigators accountable. It feels like Special Prosecutor time. That aside, let me re-make a point I keep making: Google had no knowledge of NSA's physical compromise of their data centers. But still, they pushed harder than anyone…

You make it sound as if Google is being altruistic here. Security is essential to the direction they are heavily pushing.

Chromebooks vs. Macs/Windows/Linux

Gmail vs. Exchange(not Exchange Online)

Google Apps/Drive vs. Office/LibreOffice

"Why the NSA loves Google’s Chromebook"

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/09/why-th...

Of course, all this applies to all cloudhosted services including Skydrive, Exchange Online, etc. but out of all companies, Google is the one that has most at stake if people become fearful of their data leaking on the way to the cloud and decide to keep their data inhouse instead of going to the cloud.

To me, the big surprise was that Google wasn't encrypting the links between it's own datacenters before these revelations.

As usual, Stallman is proven right again. If your data is under someone else's control, it's not yours.

"Cloud computing is a trap, warns GNU founder Richard Stallman" http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.comp...

Post reply on HN