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How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

adii.me

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Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#31

Post by adii »

drharris wrote: post #26
exo_duz wrote: post #17

I am currently doing a startup too. It seems that I can handle all the design, coding and technical side of things but I cannot market and do sales. Although I agree with some of the points such as launching early and the communication aspect of it. I'm against deceptive tactics to get sales. Even though he said that it didn't feel good, then why continue with the same tactic? Does getting the sales and numbers justi…

Best advice is to not do this, or anything like it. If you're a one-man show, then be sure to blog, tweet, or otherwise communicate with your customers often. Treat them like people, and build a following. When your startup fails (and 99% do), hopefully a good portion of those will follow you to your next venture. Building customers through respect is what builds a lasting brand (you). Don't take money until you have…

Just to be 100% clear: we never took any money for anything we didn't have. When we eventually opened the doors to our V1, there was actually something there and only at that point did we charge anyone's credit card.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#32

Post by gjm11 »

You lied to customers to get something valuable from them (in this case, the information that they were prepared to pay you, and their engagement with your site). You used this, by your own account, to gain $4000. I wouldn't want to make a large bet that that isn't fraud and outright illegal.

It probably isn't, unfortunately. But I hope your company fails. You should not get away with such behaviour.

A decent person would learn from all the people here saying "This is not an acceptable way to behave", and issue an apology for boasting about how they made a profit from deceiving their customers. I wonder: are you a decent person?

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#33

Post by adii »

bachback wrote: post #30

"Obviously being open and sincere about all the facts after the deception helps, but it also contradicts the very fact that you were deceitful." I don't understand how this is going to help anybody's cause.

Well, that's like reactive transparency. For some people this means that I / we have broken their trust and any future relationship is thus dependent on earning back that trust. Being open, honest and apologetic after that fact, helps with mending those relationships.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#34

Post by USNetizen »

This type of thing has the potential to ruin the reputation of startups everywhere. If it isn't outright fraud (selling people something that doesn't exist) I'm not sure what is.

I'm amazed someone has the gall to boast about this type of thing publicly while blatantly ignoring the long-reaching repercussions their actions could have throughout the entire startup community.

People routinely go to prison for similar types of deception in other industries. It is a slippery slope that is surely testing the bounds of fraud while ruining the reputation of legitimate startups everywhere.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#35

Post by bradt »

adii wrote: post #27
bradt wrote: post #22

TL;DR - Putting up a marketing site and asking for money up front sets customers expectations for what is to be delivered. But startups change significantly in the early stages, so it's very difficult to meet customer expectations. I'd like to hear more about what people said in the customer interviews. Here's my experience as a consumer... After flipping through the library, I signed up immediately. The cost/value w…

I'd like to clarify two things: 1) The intention was always to produce the videos / content. And it still is too (we have just deprioritized this and tweaked the roadmap from our initial plan). 2) The customer interviews we had (along with the survey we did thereafter) gave us insight into what our founding customers really paid for and for the majority that wasn't the content.

1) Ah, excellent! Perhaps I missed the communication on this?

2) Yep, re-prioritizing based on this makes complete sense.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#36

Post by tixocloud »

exo_duz wrote: post #17

I am currently doing a startup too. It seems that I can handle all the design, coding and technical side of things but I cannot market and do sales. Although I agree with some of the points such as launching early and the communication aspect of it. I'm against deceptive tactics to get sales. Even though he said that it didn't feel good, then why continue with the same tactic? Does getting the sales and numbers justi…

Whether getting the sales and numbers justify a person's actions depends on the ethical values that the founder has. For many, this seems like a legitimate way of validating one's idea. For others, this is completely morally wrong. As you said, if it didn't feel good, why would one continue the same tactic? I believe business is an art as much as a science. There's much more balance work needed than the narrow focus on sales and numbers. The balance of employees, shareholders, customers, society, your own moral values, etc. Good luck! You can market and do sales. Just do it already :)

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#37

Post by adii »

tixocloud wrote: post #24
adii wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I think that this technique can be refined? For sure. :) One of the reasons for publishing this and being open about how this worked is to be a catalyst for a conversation around this, which would hopefully see a refinement of the technique.

I applaud you for being so open and transparent. Although I personally feel that the line was crossed, your openness to see a refinement in technique is refreshing. There are just too many "entrepreneurs" these days justifying their practices by saying that it works and it's completely legal. For me there are 3 responsibilities (in the same order) to any entrepreneur/business: 1. ethical responsibility 2. economical…

Sure, I could have just done customer interviews without requiring CC details. I truly believe that this feedback is however still hit-or-miss and we might've optimized for the wrong thing thereafter. Paying customers' feedback is always better than the feedback from any kind of "free user".

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#38

Post by davidw »

gjm11 wrote: post #32

You lied to customers to get something valuable from them (in this case, the information that they were prepared to pay you, and their engagement with your site). You used this, by your own account, to gain $4000. I wouldn't want to make a large bet that that isn't fraud and outright illegal. It probably isn't, unfortunately. But I hope your company fails. You should not get away with such behaviour. A decent person…

I don't think I would have done this either, but before beating up on Adii too much, have you ever spent a lot of time and/or money building something that no one wanted? It really, really sucks, and I can understand the strong drive to avoid it.

To keep the discussion productive, I think we ought to look at similar ways to validate a product that more of us would be comfortable with.

Edit actually, patio11's take on how to validate struck me as a pretty good approach:

http://www.kalzumeus.com/2013/04/24/marketing-for-people-who...

It's pretty long, so if you find "This one day I went into a massage therapist, and asked" that's the start of the story.

I disagree with him about 'The Lean Startup' though, I thought it was a bit too ... "high level".

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#39

Post by adii »

gjm11 wrote: post #32

You lied to customers to get something valuable from them (in this case, the information that they were prepared to pay you, and their engagement with your site). You used this, by your own account, to gain $4000. I wouldn't want to make a large bet that that isn't fraud and outright illegal. It probably isn't, unfortunately. But I hope your company fails. You should not get away with such behaviour. A decent person…

You realize that the title is obviously exaggerated and that I didn't gain $4000 on day one. I did however gain the kind of validation that eventually allowed me to gain $4000 in cash when we launched a month later.

For every person that has criticized this, I have had another one saying this is great. I also know for a fact that I'm not the first startup entrepreneur to do this.

I have already apologized to each and every one of our customers. I have also mended the relationships (AFAIK) to the extent that the "angry" customers would consider being customers in future.

Ultimately, I think that this was ballsy publishing this and being open about the pro's & cons of this. I'm not saying that this is the best technique ever and neither am I saying that everyone should follow this approach. I am however saying that it worked for us and I am keen to engage others on this topic.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#40

Post by ggreer »

I'm not sure why you posted this. Are the pageviews from the controversy really enough to offset a long-term loss of reputation? Maybe you don't understand the line you crossed.

You advertised video courses taught by talented entrepreneurs. Later, you launched what is effectively a forum. These two things are hardly similar, but you charged users for the latter when they signed up to pay for the former.

Couch it in as many euphemisms as you want, but you tricked people for your own gain. I don't want someone to do that to me, and I won't do such a thing to someone else. Unfortunately, you didn't treat others as you like to be treated. I think that's unethical.

In the future, please treat your customers with more honesty and respect.

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