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How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

adii.me

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Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#21

Post by tixocloud »

BrechtVds wrote: post #9
gizmo wrote: post #2

Launching early is certainly a good thing. Launching a product that is only a proof of concept so people can really see what you're trying to do is also a good idea. But taking people's money under the banner "WE'RE A COMMUNITY OF ENTREPRENEURS THAT HELP EACH OTHER." when no such community exists seems borderline dishonest. When 5.5% of your initial customers feel scammed and are are upset about being deceived it may…

"taking people's money under the banner ..." He didn't actually charge people before the product was finished and they were able to opt-out after they knew what happened. Would have been a whole different story if the cards had actually been charged.

While the author did not charge the credit cards, he did not communicate to his site visitors about the situation either. It was only after the fact once they essentially gave out their information did he reveal the truth. Sure, you can argue that he did not charge for those that wanted to opt out. But from the get go, his visitors were not provided with the correct information to make an informed decision.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#22

Post by bradt »

TL;DR - Putting up a marketing site and asking for money up front sets customers expectations for what is to be delivered. But startups change significantly in the early stages, so it's very difficult to meet customer expectations.

I'd like to hear more about what people said in the customer interviews. Here's my experience as a consumer...

After flipping through the library, I signed up immediately. The cost/value was very high.

After putting in my credit card details, I was put in a queue, which was a little frustrating as I was expecting instant access, but I got over it quickly and didn't mind waiting. I think this was fine.

The big problem came when the library disappeared from the site and the business went in a very different direction. I had pledged $30/month for something specific (the videos from high-profile entrepreneurs), so it was disappointing to see that it wasn't going to happen. It even entered my mind that it was only ever a carrot to get my credit card details and that there was never an intent to make the videos. So, some confidence lost there. Also, still having my credit card on the hook for something else that I hadn't yet learned about was a bit disconcerting.

Adii is a friend and I was still curious about what it would be, so I stuck with it. It's highly likely if I didn't know the founder, I would have cancelled immediately.

I struggle to consistently participate in communities, so I will be cancelling my membership. The video library was more my thing, consumption without engagement. And that's what I pledged my $30/month for.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#23

Post by drharris »

adii wrote: post #15
gizmo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't use a pithy quote to excuse bad behavior.

This isn't excusing bad behaviour at all. In fact, I've been very up-front about the fact that this technique relies on deception and that I didn't like that bit. I stick to what I've said though, which is that putting up a landing page with an e-mail signup and a "Request Early Access"-kinda thing is similarly deceptive. The only difference is that I actually asked for CC details. To that extent, I'm willing to do w…

Oh, well since you didn't like it, that's ok then. Wait, no it's not; it's horrible, indecent advice. Good business is being honest with your customers. Count me among the ones who would never turn over money with scumball tactics like this. Do your domain research, spend a few months making an MVP, and sell it in a working state. Give your early adopters premium pricing so they stick with you through the early churn. I wish your customers the best, as they're in for a rocky ride turning money away to such a scammy businessman.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#24

Post by tixocloud »

adii wrote: post #14
davidw wrote: post #11

Interesting - he gave a talk on this at Microconf Europe which was this last weekend, and a very good conference with lots of cool and interesting people. There was (I thought) something of a feeling in the room of "hrm, maybe this is a bit over the line?" although everyone was appreciative of the fact that it was a much stronger validation of the idea than just handing over an email address. Watching Adii talk, I ce…

Do I think that this technique can be refined? For sure. :) One of the reasons for publishing this and being open about how this worked is to be a catalyst for a conversation around this, which would hopefully see a refinement of the technique.

I applaud you for being so open and transparent. Although I personally feel that the line was crossed, your openness to see a refinement in technique is refreshing. There are just too many "entrepreneurs" these days justifying their practices by saying that it works and it's completely legal. For me there are 3 responsibilities (in the same order) to any entrepreneur/business: 1. ethical responsibility 2. economical responsibility 3. legal responsibility

To say that something is completely legal does not make it unethical. So I do hope we can find a better way. The false advertising that companies put out makes me sad but it's also an opportunity for businesses to be honest with their customers.

Question for you though: You mentioned you received numerous signups signalling their interest. Could you have conducted your interviews with them instead? From the story, it seemed to me like the key point was identifying the needs of the customers. Of course, the ones who placed their credit card information are the ones most interested which filters them out from the rest.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#25

Post by davidw »

adii wrote: post #7
elmuchoprez wrote: post #4

This is specifically what services like Kickstarter were designed to address. And there is plenty of evidence to suggest that crowd-funding services are viable funding models, especially for low budget projects like this. This feels like deception for the sake of deception and I would have been among those who were pissed had I signed up.

You'll see in the article that Kickstarter or crowdfunding would not have validated this idea, as the difference between backing / pre-ordering / investing in a product versus purchasing a product is significant. To validate an idea, you need to know that you can actually sell it in a repeatable fashion. Kickstarter or crowdfunding is generally a once-off process, so doesn't give you that validation. (I know that man…

We don't have any data, but "would not have validated the idea" is ... perhaps not 100% accurate?

People do manage to "kinda/sorta" validate their ideas by getting email signups. Granted, it's less accurate than actually collecting CC details, but it does provide some indication. And kickstarter involves actual money, so perhaps it gives you a better idea than email, even if it's not quite as good as getting their CC. Maybe that tradeoff is worth it in terms of openness with your future customers?

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#26

Post by drharris »

exo_duz wrote: post #17

I am currently doing a startup too. It seems that I can handle all the design, coding and technical side of things but I cannot market and do sales. Although I agree with some of the points such as launching early and the communication aspect of it. I'm against deceptive tactics to get sales. Even though he said that it didn't feel good, then why continue with the same tactic? Does getting the sales and numbers justi…

Best advice is to not do this, or anything like it. If you're a one-man show, then be sure to blog, tweet, or otherwise communicate with your customers often. Treat them like people, and build a following. When your startup fails (and 99% do), hopefully a good portion of those will follow you to your next venture. Building customers through respect is what builds a lasting brand (you). Don't take money until you have a product to give them, unless you're upfront about it.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#27

Post by adii »

bradt wrote: post #22

TL;DR - Putting up a marketing site and asking for money up front sets customers expectations for what is to be delivered. But startups change significantly in the early stages, so it's very difficult to meet customer expectations. I'd like to hear more about what people said in the customer interviews. Here's my experience as a consumer... After flipping through the library, I signed up immediately. The cost/value w…

I'd like to clarify two things:

1) The intention was always to produce the videos / content. And it still is too (we have just deprioritized this and tweaked the roadmap from our initial plan). 2) The customer interviews we had (along with the survey we did thereafter) gave us insight into what our founding customers really paid for and for the majority that wasn't the content.

Re: How I Made $4000 Selling A Product I Didn't Have

#29

Post by adii »

davidw wrote: post #25
adii wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll see in the article that Kickstarter or crowdfunding would not have validated this idea, as the difference between backing / pre-ordering / investing in a product versus purchasing a product is significant. To validate an idea, you need to know that you can actually sell it in a repeatable fashion. Kickstarter or crowdfunding is generally a once-off process, so doesn't give you that validation. (I know that man…

We don't have any data, but "would not have validated the idea" is ... perhaps not 100% accurate? People do manage to "kinda/sorta" validate their ideas by getting email signups. Granted, it's less accurate than actually collecting CC details, but it does provide some indication. And kickstarter involves actual money, so perhaps it gives you a better idea than email, even if it's not quite as good as getting their CC…

Sure, maybe that is a worthwhile trade-off to consider for anyone considering something similar in future.
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