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Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

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Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#31

Post by n3rdy »

kghose wrote: post #14
junto wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He earned $200,000 a year. Maybe he has some savings.

To me, the real story is possibly how the government over pays contractors. The other real story is not that the government does this, it is that the government did not tell us it did this. THAT makes it underhand. If the government came out and said, look we are storing who calls whom and asking telecos to store that information and, with judicial oversight, we will access that information, and we had a debate about…

> To me, the real story is possibly how the government over pays contractors.

That's the real story to you?

An entity that prints its own money (and uses it to spy on everyone), paying too much for contractors?

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#32

Post by greghinch »

uvdiv wrote: post #3

Then again, if Snowden were hypothetically spying for the PRC, Hong Kong would be the most logical place to seek protection. In this scenario the PRC would credibly protect him from the US, and European liberal democracies would not.

How do you make the jump from leaking the existence of a massive secret surveillance network within the US to him being a spy?? What reason would a spy have to share this info with the public?? Sounds like FUD to me...

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#33

Post by joonix »

cryptokill wrote: post #2

This stuff proves to me that these programs have no value in stopping things that have not yet happened. Like the boston bombings and this guy, I sure there was a huge trail of evidence that didn't get identified in time to stop the actual act.

Or that the programs are not being abused widely for surveillance outside of their stated purpose?

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#34

Post by wallawe »

This guy is not dumb by any stretch of the imagination. He also didn't make this decision overnight. If I had to guess, he planned this all very well with all considerations in mind .

The fact that he noted his location at all is interesting in that he obviously doesn't want to get caught. So why bring it up? He could have just as easily left that detail anonymous. Makes me wonder if there's a tactic in mind that we might not have seen just yet.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#35

Post by kombine »

pekk wrote: post #29
kombine wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, it is all politics and all selective. A lot of Russians fled to the UK to elude justice in Russia. Whether they are political refugees or indeed committed crimes back home is another matter, but London is certainly a safe harbour for many of them.

For which crime is polonium poisoning a legal sentence? Because if it's not a legal sentence, then it is not a matter of eluding "justice".

That is just one example, others are Berezovsky, Chichvarkin, Akhmed Zakayev to name the few. You should know who Berezovsky is, Chichvarkin created a retail chain for mobile electronics who had his business expropriated by some high ranking cops and Zakayev is a former Chechen rebel. This is what I can bring on top of my head, but I'm sure there are a lot more.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#36

Post by grandalf »

China would turn Snowden over to US authorities only in exchange for the return of Chinese protesters given asylum in the US.

The "China is an oppressive regime" meme makes up a lot of US propaganda and is used to justify all kinds of policies. So the US is put in the awkward position of not being able to engage in the usual diplomatic trade.

Hong Kong is useful b/c it represents the future of Chinese society and is a concentration of wealth and influence. By letting Snowden stay in HK, China can appease its own population while also appearing to stand strong against the US government's demands.

The best hope for the USG is that this blows over. Snowden seems fairly savvy about the media's role and if he's able to continue to shape the discussion there might actually be meaningful outcomes.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#37

Post by CaveTech »

wallawe wrote: post #34

This guy is not dumb by any stretch of the imagination. He also didn't make this decision overnight. If I had to guess, he planned this all very well with all considerations in mind . The fact that he noted his location at all is interesting in that he obviously doesn't want to get caught. So why bring it up? He could have just as easily left that detail anonymous. Makes me wonder if there's a tactic in mind that we…

It's unlikely that he'd be able to hide anywhere in the world at this point without at least someone finding him. At least by saying where he is people will notice if he goes "missing".

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#38

Post by trotsky »

kghose wrote: post #14
junto wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He earned $200,000 a year. Maybe he has some savings.

To me, the real story is possibly how the government over pays contractors. The other real story is not that the government does this, it is that the government did not tell us it did this. THAT makes it underhand. If the government came out and said, look we are storing who calls whom and asking telecos to store that information and, with judicial oversight, we will access that information, and we had a debate about…

There is so much demand in maryland for IT that has a clearance that it bids up the price of anyone reasonably competetant.

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#39

Post by macspoofing »

Here's a cynical interpretation: Hong Kong makes zero sense given that they are a) within Chinese sphere of influence and b) frequently extradites to the US. He's go other sensitive documents he may sell to the Chinese in exchange for money and sanctuary. So maybe that was the plan all along. Everyone focuses on the NSA wire-tapping scandal (which, honestly, I think everyone assumed was happening for years), and he gets a payout and some cover.

Too cynical?

Re: Hong Kong Baffled by Snowden’s Hideout

#40

Post by dodyg »

uvdiv wrote: post #3

Then again, if Snowden were hypothetically spying for the PRC, Hong Kong would be the most logical place to seek protection. In this scenario the PRC would credibly protect him from the US, and European liberal democracies would not.

Spying 101: don't go public.
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