The PyCon Incident • Hacker News Board

Re: The PyCon Incident

#31

Post by blhack » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:30 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #16

blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

Let's cool down a little here. An irresponsible tweet doesn't really constitute a "personal vendetta" (it's not even personal -- as far as I can tell she never knew their names). And while the post was (apparently, I don't know what the evidence here is) the proximate cause, you really can't say that she "got [him] fired", as she wasn't the employer nor did she advocate for his termination. It's just a bad situation…

It went further than that, though. http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont...

Re: The PyCon Incident

#32

Post by tiredofcareer » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:30 PM UTC

I think all of us would agree that technology has a sexism problem. However, the environment in 2013 and the way, as a whole, it seems that we have gone about countering it is roughly equivalent to napalming six city blocks to get rid of bedbugs in an apartment. (Edit: On reflection, a better analogy would be napalming New York City to eradicate bedbugs. I am aware of the scope of the sexism problem.)

This little saga merely reminded me that I'm walking from computers after my next position. Gone. Before 35. I'm going to go a career that isn't completely nonsensical, like fishing. I can't imagine I'm the only one. The overcompensation and hypersensitivity to combat sexism in technology is, rather amusingly, making technology even more hostile and demoralizing.

I don't want to read the fallout from a conference any more. This PyCon was apparently so much of a shitshow that I'm glad I didn't go. The decision to ban someone for smoking pot really cracked me up, given who I smoked pot with at PyCon 2012.

This fucking industry. So many double standards and emotional children. It's like I never left high school.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#33

Post by jamesaguilar » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:31 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #21

jamesaguilar wrote: post #13

I think there are a few points to be made here: - First-offense phallus jokes should probably not be dismissable. - Phallus jokes should probably not be made in professional, public contexts. - It would be surprising if the guy was a valuable member of the team and fired on this basis alone. - Adria's reaction probably didn't follow any principle of measured escalation. I take issue with folks who say "it's a harmles…

You know, I've been thinking... It's also pretty unprofessional to wear jeans to work, and beer after 4:00pm on Friday is just a lawsuit waiting to happen. Also the schedule that the developers keep is really unprofessional. If one of the accountants tried to show up at 11:00am, they'd be fired! I also saw some pictures of one of our devs at Burning Man last year. He was wearing some sort of black, canvas skirt, and…

What's professional is defined by the context. It would not be professional to wear developer clothes or keep developer times as a bank executive.

In neither context are sexual jokes considered professional. Actually, generally speaking you can be held personally liable for creating a hostile work environment if one of your colleagues if offended by your jokes and you keep making them (assuming you aren't fired for the behavior first). And in case you're hoping that eventually sexual jokes will be permitted, the arrow of history is pointing the opposite direction on that one. Workplace practices and laws used to be much more permissive of sexual conduct ("misconduct" as we would call it today) than they are now.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#34

Post by dmishe » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:31 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #26

dmishe wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and there goes the freedom of speech

"Freedom of speech" is only applicable in the context of a government acting towards its citizens. It has zero bearing whatsoever on interactions between citizens that the government doesn't get involved in.

Ok gotta agree with you both here.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#35

Post by JDSD » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:31 PM UTC

Isn't this classified as slander? He could file a civil suit against this lady for what she allegedly heard, more than likely out of context, and publicly exposed something she had no business eavesdropping anyway.

This man wasn't being immature, he was having a laugh in a personal conversation, and someone wanted to be an internet hero, stand on a soapbox, and project their shitty, self-righteous opinions.

What if he was talking about chaining multiple USB Dongles. It would be a HUGE dongle, and it could theoretically be marketed as a PHALLUS DONGLE.

Please see George Carlin on soft language for further reference..

Re: The PyCon Incident

#36

Post by moistgorilla » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:31 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #16

blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

Let's cool down a little here. An irresponsible tweet doesn't really constitute a "personal vendetta" (it's not even personal -- as far as I can tell she never knew their names). And while the post was (apparently, I don't know what the evidence here is) the proximate cause, you really can't say that she "got [him] fired", as she wasn't the employer nor did she advocate for his termination. It's just a bad situation…

She has thousands of followers. She is in a powerful position and she abused it. Just because she wasn't the employer doesn't mean her goal wasn't something along these lines. Why else would you post a clear picture of their faces up to a public lynch mob?

Re: The PyCon Incident

#37

Post by jamesaguilar » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:32 PM UTC

moistgorilla wrote: post #27

jamesaguilar wrote: post #13

I think there are a few points to be made here: - First-offense phallus jokes should probably not be dismissable. - Phallus jokes should probably not be made in professional, public contexts. - It would be surprising if the guy was a valuable member of the team and fired on this basis alone. - Adria's reaction probably didn't follow any principle of measured escalation. I take issue with folks who say "it's a harmles…

Who got harmed by this joke being told? No one, thus it's harmless.

Apparently it harmed someone enough that they were willing to complain to twitter about it. There have been a few good articles posted about why many women feel uncomfortable when the workplace is sexualized, especially in male-dominated industries. If you haven't read one, you may want to check into it.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#38

Post by incongruity » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:32 PM UTC

kanja wrote: post #5

Adria's actions really clearly violated the pycon code of conduct - has there been an official response yet?

Because nobody explicitly filed a complaint with the PyCon organizers.

I believe the role they've attempted to take is arbitrator, not police officer or enforcement authority. In short, they don't go looking for infractions, but instead deal with them when someone feels wronged.

And they handle themselves extremely professionally from everything I've seen.

Full disclosure, I previously helped organize PyCon, but haven't been actively involved in a few years.

Disclaimer: My opinions are my own and I do not speak for anyone else or any organization in the Python world.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#39

Post by wpietri » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:32 PM UTC

Well, how can I not believe somebody demanding forthrightness, honesty, and the careful use of social media when they're making anonymous accusations in a way designed to stir up emotions and on-line drama?

Re: The PyCon Incident

#40

Post by whalesalad » Wed, Mar 20, 2013, 10:32 PM UTC

Most Europeans must just be laughing and pointing fingers at the insane political correctness in America and more specifically, the hacker community these days. I knew something was fishy from the get-go on this story but waited to see what else would come out of it. Thanks for this post, it articulates my feelings on the situation perfectly. People are outta control these days. We're turning molehills into mountains boys and girls.