Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012 • Hacker News Board

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#31

Post by azm1 » Sat, Dec 29, 2012, 3:23 PM UTC

JanezStupar wrote: post #27

pretoriusB wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "development for development's sake"? Development doesn't happen for its own sake. It's about improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering. No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only abo…

> No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only about return of investment. Umm, not all businesses are in the business of providing happiness to people. Some are in fact in the business of providing misery t…

Are you really sure we as western hemisphere do not own nothing to the eastern or more accurately to people who struggle? I'm no historian but I heard something about the wiping out Indians and enslaving African people. Are you really sure you can say that we are independent snowflakes who deserve all things by right and to not actually look where to pay back for our mistakes to improve all Earth life conditions no matter of location and nationhood ?

The thing is we have not solved many problems yet, we just postpone them and trying to argue with improvements on technological layer which is relatively shallow on its own.

Western culture is for example filled with materialism and definitely not pushing us forward. By reducing the needs and learn about struggle of others beyond our family would help to reduce waste and improve life of others. Both sides win.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#32

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Dec 29, 2012, 3:26 PM UTC

JanezStupar wrote: post #27

pretoriusB wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "development for development's sake"? Development doesn't happen for its own sake. It's about improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering. No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only abo…

> No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only about return of investment. Umm, not all businesses are in the business of providing happiness to people. Some are in fact in the business of providing misery t…

> While I can easily sympathize with your position, rich western corporations don't owe jack shit to third world people.

Wow that is so wrong it is terrible. Rich western corporations are rich western corporations because of the 1400s to date absolute rape of the rest of the world by the west.

We, collectively including our corporations owe third world people in a way that we will likely never be able to make good on.

> I believe that you and other people with the same attitude as you should put your money where your mouth is and lead the way for the rest of us.

And I believe that people with your attitude should go and read a few history books. You can start with 'Guns, Germs and Steel', proceed to the VOC company history (the UK version and the Dutch one) as well as the history of India.

Maybe that will change your mind on this. In case you don't feel like reading I'll give you a short preview of one possible conclusion: The 'West' is where it is today because it is standing on the broken backs and bloody remains of millions of people slaughtered, robbed and raped for profit.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#33

Post by JanezStupar » Sat, Dec 29, 2012, 3:31 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #32

JanezStupar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only about return of investment. Umm, not all businesses are in the business of providing happiness to people. Some are in fact in the business of providing misery t…

> While I can easily sympathize with your position, rich western corporations don't owe jack shit to third world people. Wow that is so wrong it is terrible. Rich western corporations are rich western corporations because of the 1400s to date absolute rape of the rest of the world by the west. We, collectively including our corporations owe third world people in a way that we will likely never be able to make good on…

I didn't say western people don't own our brethren anything. I said that coporations are not the problem. And that our coporations don't own anybody anything, beyond respecting the law and paying taxes that is.

Also one would expect (and that is what I am hinting at) that the rest of the world will smart up and stop acting as if we know what is the best for them. They are independent people and are not our children.

Regarding history, maybe we should demand something from the Scandinavians, since their current welfare is obviously hugely dependent on the Viking's rape and pillage?

p.s.: And I would advise you to read on Eastern hisotry and learn how Eastern people were more than capable of producing mass genocides on their own.

Also I am not denying anything you are saying. However do you somehow believe that if West said today: "We did you wrong, here take everything that is ours and let us pay our debt in blood". It would make the world a better place?

The crux of my argument is that it is upon third world to improve their situation, with or without our help. The biggest help we already gave them is the massive investments into side tracks. If they want to produce medicine they can just rip off our tech. No need to start from square one. etc.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#34

Post by cwp » Sat, Dec 29, 2012, 3:35 PM UTC

pretoriusB wrote: post #22

cwp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"development for development's sake"? Development doesn't happen for its own sake. It's about improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering. If you had to carry water a few miles each day, or gather firewood to keep you warm in the winter or were infected by tuberculosis, you might welcome a little development. And sure, with great power comes great responsibility. But we've managed to avoid catastrop…

> "development for development's sake"? Development doesn't happen for its own sake. It's about improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering. No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only abo…

> It's mostly about making money

Those things go hand in hand. Ideally, you can't make money without improving human life in exchange. Sure, any political system will include a bit of corruption and rent-seeking, but by-and-large, it's exactly the profit motive that has improved the human condition.

> billions_ of people continue to do that

So it's all pointless? Because we haven't achieved a paradise of endless bliss where no one suffers, we shouldn't bother to try to make things better? As a society we are pursuing both faster smartphones and eradication of diseases. It's really hard to predict which technologies will be the most fruitful. The cell phone, despite being invented to solve first-world problems, has had a huge impact on the third world. It's probably done more to improve the quality of human life than any charitable program ever!

[edit] > the idea that production, sales, whatever must continuously expand.

Production must expand as long as population continues to expand. The projection is that population will peak around mid-century and begin to come down again. At that point, production might well level off or begin to decline as well.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#35

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 29, 2012, 3:37 PM UTC

pretoriusB wrote: post #11

shanelja wrote: post #2

I hadn't thought of these individual achievements as being that big until I saw them all together in one place and now I can say that this has truly been a breakthrough year all across the technology sector. Every year we seem to be accelerating our speed of development when it comes to technology, I'm only 19 and in my life I've seen us go from 56kb/s internet to 1gb/s internet, go from the rare NASA launch to regul…

> We live in the golden age of human history up to now and I would be willing to place a long bet that in 100 years, we will look back on the last 30 years as the dawn of the modern age. Well, we live in the golden age of human _technology_. But, I'd argue, far from the golden age of human history. And maybe closer than ever to the extinction of mankind, if that "let's fix the climate issue with even more technology…

[deleted]

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#36

Post by josteink » Sat, Dec 29, 2012, 3:38 PM UTC

Rounded corners being worth 1 billion dollars in patent-lawsuits evidently not among them. Pantent-trolling being more profitable the producting neither.

Seriously. We have come a so far in technology the last decades. Things we would consider science fiction or maybe even ipmossible ten years ago is every-day stuff now.

And our "tech leaders" (and I say that with the most disrespect possible) are now busy engaging in frivilious lawsuit over the shape of the plastic which all this technology is packaged in instead of doing amazing stuff. People claim to "own" rounded corners and flat-screens. Designs already put to market in the 60s.

In my books 2012 goes down as the year when tech stopped being about tech and became dominated by anti-competitive lawsuits instead of innovation. The year where no new tech arrived, only new lawsuits.

And a sad year it was.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#37

Post by pyre » Sat, Dec 29, 2012, 3:39 PM UTC

pretoriusB wrote: post #24

JanezStupar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enlighten me then, when was golden age of human history then in your opinion? I have a problem with you new age romantics, bitching about issues of current civilization without providing alternatives or even realizing what "reversing" current state of affairs would really mean.

> Enlighten me then, when was golden age of human history then in your opinion? Ever occurred to you that it might be in the future? Or that human history was perpetually in the same state of mess? Good for a few, a nightmare for others? Or that "good for humanity" and technological advancements are not necessarily the same thing, and that e.g living an agrarian life in some 18th century farm could be better for some…

  > Damn, I'd take living in the sixties to living in the
  > '00s any day of the week, despite having to let go of
  > my iPad.

Let me guess, you're a white male?

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#38

Post by edj » Sat, Dec 29, 2012, 3:39 PM UTC

JanezStupar wrote: post #27

pretoriusB wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "development for development's sake"? Development doesn't happen for its own sake. It's about improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering. No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only abo…

> No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only about return of investment. Umm, not all businesses are in the business of providing happiness to people. Some are in fact in the business of providing misery t…

Anyways, businesses are not the ones deciding what services to provide to the people, customers are. So if you want to blame anybody, blame customers

Huh? Since when are businesses like billiard balls, just sitting there, inert, awaiting some external stimuli to push them into action.

A business is an association of individual people. If people have agency, then businesses must have agency, as well.

And in any case, as the saying goes, it takes two to tango.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#39

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Dec 29, 2012, 3:43 PM UTC

JanezStupar wrote: post #33

jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I can easily sympathize with your position, rich western corporations don't owe jack shit to third world people. Wow that is so wrong it is terrible. Rich western corporations are rich western corporations because of the 1400s to date absolute rape of the rest of the world by the west. We, collectively including our corporations owe third world people in a way that we will likely never be able to make good on…

I didn't say western people don't own our brethren anything. I said that coporations are not the problem. And that our coporations don't own anybody anything, beyond respecting the law and paying taxes that is. Also one would expect (and that is what I am hinting at) that the rest of the world will smart up and stop acting as if we know what is the best for them. They are independent people and are not our children.…

Except corporations dodge tax in ways no individual ever could. Oh, it's all perfectly legal, it is called 'tax avoidance'.

And corporations as a rule are part and parcel of the societies they're engendered in and quite a few can trace their opportunity and starting capital right back to some crime against humanity, or are in the process of committing some of those during their life-cycle.

The countries we plundered are independent people in the same way that the old lady that was just hit over the head and robbed of her capital is independent and knows what's best for her. She's also clearly not our child. But we as the robbers probably carry a good bit of responsibility for how the rest plays out past the point where the business end of our club contacted the back of her head.

I fail to see the link between the Scandinavians and their current state of welfare and the Vikings, as far as I know the Vikings were no better or worse than what the rest of Europe was up to at the time and they definitely did not lay the foundation for the current welfare system there.

Re: Futuristic Predictions That Came True in 2012

#40

Post by JanezStupar » Sat, Dec 29, 2012, 3:47 PM UTC

azm1 wrote: post #31

JanezStupar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it's not. It's mostly about making money. No business cares about "improving the quality of human life and alleviating suffering" (they might pay lip service to that on their brochures though). Shareholders don't care about "alleviating suffering", only about return of investment. Umm, not all businesses are in the business of providing happiness to people. Some are in fact in the business of providing misery t…

Are you really sure we as western hemisphere do not own nothing to the eastern or more accurately to people who struggle? I'm no historian but I heard something about the wiping out Indians and enslaving African people. Are you really sure you can say that we are independent snowflakes who deserve all things by right and to not actually look where to pay back for our mistakes to improve all Earth life conditions no m…

Killed people cannot be brought back. Greed is always bad. However you are putting strawmen about.

Let me explain. The Indian situation was at least as unfortunate as Jewish situation in ancient Babilon or Gypsy (Roma) situation in ancient Babilon. Or the situation of Amalekites and Midianites. Or the situation of Moors for that matter. It is unfortunate that sometimes two civilizations clash and cannot get to grips about what to do with some piece of land and then the more powerful group goes to tear the weaker group a new one. It is extremely unfortunate however, this issue will not be solved here on HN and it will not be solved by idealism. It is an story of pragmatism in the face of adversity. Kill or be killed, adopt or be left behind.

Regarding slavery, this is another great myth. Americans (and Dutch) enslaved barely anybody. The poor gentle africans were more than capable of doing their own savagery by themselves. Africans did their own enslaving and western slave traders merely bought the available goods. Does that make slave trade moral? No. However I really dislike this picture of white man as the most amoral being on the face of the world.