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Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

reuters.com

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Re: Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

#31

Post by toofy »

hparadiz wrote: post #21
wry_discontent wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems totally reasonable. It is designed to be addictive, and they definitely target folks under 18. The article specifically mentions teens.

You still haven't convinced me that is inherently bad that is warrants some sort of monetary damages. All entertainment is addictive. That's the whole point. This is just people seeing dollar signs asking for handouts. Nothing of an real value to society. Why is it okay for FB to be sued but not say Pokemon? I think Pokemon is way more dangerous, addictive, and is basically gambling with the card packs. Have some per…

> Have some personal responsibility for once.

its probably a bit unrealistic to expect children to "Have some personal responsibility for once." id agree with you if a 50 year old said, "omgolly meta, you used trickery on me."

but if the evidence shows they have specifically targeted children, then i can understand the concerns.

and yes, im aware how dangerous it is to declare "lets protect the children" but we also have to recognize this is a messy situation, and one that needs to be sorted out. i dont pretend to hold the answers, but to hand waive it away as hysteria or whatever is probably not a good solution.

Re: Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

#32

Post by bobmcnamara »

cyanydeez wrote: post #9
snickerbockers wrote: post #6

This actualy came up in yesterday's congressional MKULTRA hearing. Somebody at the hearing pointed out the absurdity of the CIA claiming that MKULTRA was a dead end when we have 20 years of social media scandals and lawsuits showing that social media corporations are intentionally creating products that can manipulate large groups of people on an individual level. Clearly the hypotheses the CIA was testing were not a…

MKULTRA was about using _drugs_ to alter state. It has literally zero other than pop culture memes and conspiracy theory in relation to what facebook is doing. The facts are basically: Facebook's own researchers and independent researchers presented real harms caused by Facebook's algorithms, and they fired them, ignored them and took the datasets away and continued doing as they want. You don't need to go to any con…

That sounds like something somebody hopped up on social media would say.

Re: Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

#33

Post by morkalork »

okuntilnow wrote: post #16
josefritzishere wrote: post #2

This is an area where we really could use case law to protect kids from the Zuckerberg's of the world. It's important for the future. We're not going to "self-regulate" our way out of this.

But when governments do regulate (UK, AUS etc all) - people cry foul.

Because the implementation is a shit show?

Re: Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

#34

Post by Towaway69 »

everdrive wrote: post #22

Large groups of people just don't know how to solve these sorts of problems. A government will never say "facebook should either not exist or should radically modify its product so that it is no longer successful" At best, they will push for identity verification or age verification. These are not the only two possible courses, but these will be the choices put in front of us. Get used to reading books and going on w…

Third option: Facebook changes it's business model from data gathering and selling to pay-to-use. Make Insta and FB both be gate communities where folks have to pay to post.

Fourth option: product becomes less addictive and the algorithms stop optimising on "angry users click more". Less advertising profits, perhaps less engagement but probably still profits on advertising.

Fifth option: don't aim to continually increase profits and instead change the rules of capitalism to be less focused on making "profit at any price" to perhaps a more gentler form. After all, Monopoly(TM) is restarted once one player has all the money, it's about time that we do that in real life too or how many more trillionaires do we need?

So there are also grey choices here and not only b/w.

Re: Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

#35

Post by alistairSH »

zach_miller wrote: post #5
whynotmaybe wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a place where self-regulation ever works?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_Dues I think this is a fun historical example. Ships passing through Denmark needed to pay a tax of 1-2% of the value of their cargo. They self-assessed that value. The twist that makes it interesting was that the King could choose to purchase any cargo immediately at the reported value. If a ship underreported, they might save on tax, but they risked taking a hefty loss. I have no…

Amateur motorsports has a similar concept - often called a "claim rule" or similar - in an attempt to control costs.

Basically, for $x amount, a competitor can buy the winning car (or its engine, or similar). Where $x is the amount the group decides should be a reasonable amount to spend on building a car.

A racer is free to spend more, but if they win too much, somebody will write a check and buy the car.

In theory. In reality, plenty of people have the money to spend $x^2 and risk the loss.

Re: Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

#36

Post by thinkingtoilet »

everdrive wrote: post #22

Large groups of people just don't know how to solve these sorts of problems. A government will never say "facebook should either not exist or should radically modify its product so that it is no longer successful" At best, they will push for identity verification or age verification. These are not the only two possible courses, but these will be the choices put in front of us. Get used to reading books and going on w…

>Get used to reading books and going on walks.

As someone who does both, it's quite lovely! You might even be happier doing that than whatever it is the modern internet has become.

Re: Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

#37

Post by plagiarist »

everdrive wrote: post #22

Large groups of people just don't know how to solve these sorts of problems. A government will never say "facebook should either not exist or should radically modify its product so that it is no longer successful" At best, they will push for identity verification or age verification. These are not the only two possible courses, but these will be the choices put in front of us. Get used to reading books and going on w…

It would probably improve my life that the internet dies, except there are no longer many third spaces. Those spaces that do exist are also recording my every movement anyway. As is my privately-owned vehicle that I took to get there.

Re: Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

#38

Post by alistairSH »

hparadiz wrote: post #21
wry_discontent wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems totally reasonable. It is designed to be addictive, and they definitely target folks under 18. The article specifically mentions teens.

You still haven't convinced me that is inherently bad that is warrants some sort of monetary damages. All entertainment is addictive. That's the whole point. This is just people seeing dollar signs asking for handouts. Nothing of an real value to society. Why is it okay for FB to be sued but not say Pokemon? I think Pokemon is way more dangerous, addictive, and is basically gambling with the card packs. Have some per…

Have some personal responsibility for once.

We literally treat minors differently under the law because they are assumed to be incapable of personal responsibility.

Re: Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

#39

Post by kmeisthax »

hparadiz wrote: post #15

Seriously losing confidence in the American judicial system with rulings like this. Facebook is already blocking children below age 13 and now with social media bans in place in many states the cut off is now 16. So frankly rulings like this just seem like the government seeing dollar signs and asking for hand outs. And all because people apparently can't accept any personal responsibility. Disclaimer: I do not have…

"Personal responsibility" stops working when all your friends and family have a Facebook[0] account and you want to contact them. Facebook builds their platforms like roach motels - easy to get in, hard to get out of - and uses your friends to hold you hostage on the platform.

My personal preference would be laws to restrict ad surveillance and laws to mandate third-party interoperability to break that calculus. But absent that, I'll take massive damage awards from the legal system.

[0] Or Instagram, or Whatsapp, or...

Re: Meta loses bid to dismiss US states' claims that FB, Instagram addict children

#40

Post by watwut »

hparadiz wrote: post #21
wry_discontent wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems totally reasonable. It is designed to be addictive, and they definitely target folks under 18. The article specifically mentions teens.

You still haven't convinced me that is inherently bad that is warrants some sort of monetary damages. All entertainment is addictive. That's the whole point. This is just people seeing dollar signs asking for handouts. Nothing of an real value to society. Why is it okay for FB to be sued but not say Pokemon? I think Pokemon is way more dangerous, addictive, and is basically gambling with the card packs. Have some per…

I suggest personal responsibility for high profile managers and CEO for once. And for those who enable them.
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