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iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

theindustry.cc

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Re: iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

#31

Post by nicholassmith »

super_mario wrote: post #30

To me the usability has suffered quite a bit with the update. Everything is a little further away in terms of how many clicks it takes to get to it. Until you show the sidebar that is. I'm glad to see the side bar now has color. But why is it off by default? Just for the sake of change? And why is the keyboard shortcut/menu item the only way to show it (i.e. UI is not discoverable)? And why is the iTunes icon a music…

Tradition is why it's still called iTunes and still has a music note for an icon, which is surprising given how Apple is pretty unsentimental about all of its products.

Re: iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

#32

Post by radley »

benbeltran wrote: post #7
ComputerGuru wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agreed. Snow Leopard was the last "true" desktop OS. I really don't see the need for Launchpad and co. when everything is and always has been a cmd+space away. EDIT In response to the heated discussion below, it's not just the launchpad that has me a little peeved about Lion and ML (I'm on ML now). Some of things that are being taken from iOS that I don't necessarily feel belong on the desktop: natural scr…

Many regular users beg to differ. At least, in my experience, the people who are less familiar with computers are the ones that love the new features the most. Especially launchpad and such. Also, just curious, but what about Lion / Mountain lion disqualifies it from being a "true" desktop OS?

- parlor trick animations everywhere

- Sandboxing non-App store apps

- obfuscating "active" icon for running apps

- daffy notification center

- hidden user Library

- focus on weaker iOS UI w/ fullscreen apps and Launchpad

- half-ass support for multiple monitors (fullscreen, auto-brightness)

- iTunes 11 dumbed down to iPad version

- Time Machine won't restore previous Apple apps

- massive Finder UI bugs (lists don't update, don't always order correctly, show as blank, coverflow view doesn't match list view)

- threading freezes when copying files

hardware degradation:

- device noise in audio port

- crash when connecting to Cinema Display

- MBP keyboard & trackpad don't respond after using external mouse & keyboard

old classics:

- migration away from desktop view, can't see hard drive / files

- QuickTime X dumbed down from QT7

Re: iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

#33

Post by gtd »

radley wrote: post #32
benbeltran wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many regular users beg to differ. At least, in my experience, the people who are less familiar with computers are the ones that love the new features the most. Especially launchpad and such. Also, just curious, but what about Lion / Mountain lion disqualifies it from being a "true" desktop OS?

- parlor trick animations everywhere - Sandboxing non-App store apps - obfuscating "active" icon for running apps - daffy notification center - hidden user Library - focus on weaker iOS UI w/ fullscreen apps and Launchpad - half-ass support for multiple monitors (fullscreen, auto-brightness) - iTunes 11 dumbed down to iPad version - Time Machine won't restore previous Apple apps - massive Finder UI bugs (lists don't…

Could you elaborate on:

> Sandboxing non-App store apps

I thought sandboxing was only required for App store apps?

Re: iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

#34

Post by dmd »

mitchty wrote: post #14
alex_c wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reversed scrolling direction jumps to mind. Minor in the large scheme of things, but it shows a conscious move towards combining the desktop and mobile concepts.

The thing is, on a trackpad it makes more sense now after getting used to our phones touch. Also its a quick defaults away to change back to the old way. defaults write -g com.apple.swipescrolldirection -bool false I find it amusing that on a site like Hacker News people are complaining about vastly simple things to change. If they remove the choice maybe then complain, but this is a vast non-issue compared to the tw…

Or you can just check a box. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/178401/Screenshots/-qre.png

Re: iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

#35

Post by radley »

gtd wrote: post #33
radley wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- parlor trick animations everywhere - Sandboxing non-App store apps - obfuscating "active" icon for running apps - daffy notification center - hidden user Library - focus on weaker iOS UI w/ fullscreen apps and Launchpad - half-ass support for multiple monitors (fullscreen, auto-brightness) - iTunes 11 dumbed down to iPad version - Time Machine won't restore previous Apple apps - massive Finder UI bugs (lists don't…

Could you elaborate on: > Sandboxing non-App store apps I thought sandboxing was only required for App store apps?

Some features in the OS require the app to be distributed via the App Store.

Re: iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

#36

Post by gtd »

jlgreco wrote: post #20
benbeltran wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many regular users beg to differ. At least, in my experience, the people who are less familiar with computers are the ones that love the new features the most. Especially launchpad and such. Also, just curious, but what about Lion / Mountain lion disqualifies it from being a "true" desktop OS?

The 90s seem like they would have been a good time to worry about users who don't really know what computers are. Why are we now driving for that market when everyone under the age of 30 grew up using modern computers? Are we still gunning from the mostly imaginary "grandmother who doesn't know how to use computers" market? The market that 1) is only shrinking, if indeed it ever existed and 2) presumably doesn't buy…

It's not about people who don't know what computers are. It's about creating simple solutions to common problems. Most people do not want to fiddle with their computers regardless of how well they understand them, they want to accomplish a task and move on. Even as a developer this is why I choose OS X over Linux.

The question is how far can they push it without totally frustrating the power users. I think it may be inevitable that Apple eventually stops making machines that the majority of non-Apple developers can tolerate.

Re: iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

#37

Post by radley »

My take is that iTunes 11 pivots away from making playlists and focuses on the 99% of users that simply buy and listen to albums.

I'm a heavy playlist user and the changes are shockingly bad. For "normal" users there's a dozen different ways to navigate and sort by album. But for playlist users there's now only one view - a text list - and a demoted tool menu on the bottom. Even command keys (i.e. Cmd-N) have been changed. Instead of just making a new playlist it changes the entire app view and the only available action is adding full albums to a playlist.

The only part worse is that I can't restore iTunes 10 via Time Machine without restoring my entire system.

Re: iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

#38

Post by radley »

radley wrote: post #32
benbeltran wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many regular users beg to differ. At least, in my experience, the people who are less familiar with computers are the ones that love the new features the most. Especially launchpad and such. Also, just curious, but what about Lion / Mountain lion disqualifies it from being a "true" desktop OS?

- parlor trick animations everywhere - Sandboxing non-App store apps - obfuscating "active" icon for running apps - daffy notification center - hidden user Library - focus on weaker iOS UI w/ fullscreen apps and Launchpad - half-ass support for multiple monitors (fullscreen, auto-brightness) - iTunes 11 dumbed down to iPad version - Time Machine won't restore previous Apple apps - massive Finder UI bugs (lists don't…

Anonymous downvoters: how am I wrong? I've been exclusively Mac for almost 20 years so I know the difference.

Re: iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

#39

Post by jlgreco »

gtd wrote: post #36
jlgreco wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 90s seem like they would have been a good time to worry about users who don't really know what computers are. Why are we now driving for that market when everyone under the age of 30 grew up using modern computers? Are we still gunning from the mostly imaginary "grandmother who doesn't know how to use computers" market? The market that 1) is only shrinking, if indeed it ever existed and 2) presumably doesn't buy…

It's not about people who don't know what computers are. It's about creating simple solutions to common problems. Most people do not want to fiddle with their computers regardless of how well they understand them, they want to accomplish a task and move on. Even as a developer this is why I choose OS X over Linux. The question is how far can they push it without totally frustrating the power users. I think it may be…

I don't think that is what is being done. Making things better is something that can be enjoyed by all users, not just "regular" users.

This part of ComputerGuru's post is what resonates with me:

> But my biggest pet peeve is just the sheer dumbing down of things. iTunes 11 is pretty, but why put everything a click away? What was so bad about a sidebar that makes everything instantly accessible and only takes 80px? Why does the app now prefer to be run in full screen?

Some things are legitimately being improved. Network configuration in all of the major operating systems is a great example of this. NetworkManager is wildly better than manually editing a wpa_supplicant file, and Windows/Macs have seen similar improvements. Not "Better for 'Regular Users'(tm).", just "Better.".

There seems to be a sort of schizophrenia in the field of "improving" computers. On one hand you have people who are honestly just trying to make things better (and are, for the most part, succeeding). It seems to me like you fall into this camp. You see value in changing things to improve the situation for everybody. I totally dig that attitude. However on the other hand you have people who are trying to make things better... for people who are perpetually trapped in the 90s. The improvements these people create are the ones that concern me.

Both are trying to improve things, but the attitude towards users is very different. I only mean to attack the second camp of "software improvement"; I think their motivation is flawed, outdated, and toxic.

Re: iTunes 11: the convergence of iOS and OS X design

#40

Post by mullingitover »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #5
purephase wrote: post #2

Funny, the one thing that is making we more and more wary of using Mac OSX in the future is the convergence of iOS. Different strokes, I guess. It just seems odd to celebrate it.

Absolutely agreed. Snow Leopard was the last "true" desktop OS. I really don't see the need for Launchpad and co. when everything is and always has been a cmd+space away. EDIT In response to the heated discussion below, it's not just the launchpad that has me a little peeved about Lion and ML (I'm on ML now). Some of things that are being taken from iOS that I don't necessarily feel belong on the desktop: natural scr…

One stop shopping to fix a slew of OSX annoyances: https://github.com/mathiasbynens/dotfiles/blob/master/.osx?o...
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