What’s the long term utility of world models? There’s no doubt they’re technically impressive, but what does one do with it?
Put them in a robot so that it can navigate the physical world like humans. Self-driving cars.
SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video
31–40 of 162 posts
Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video
#32I struggle with these world models from the perspective of video games (so this post is a particular perspective). I'm not a game developer myself, but some of my favorite games carry a deep sense of intentionality. For instance, there is typically not a single item misplaced in a FromSoftware game (or, for instance, Lies of P -- more recently). Almost every object is placed intentionally. Games which lack this inten…
By and large I agree, but it doesn’t need to be either/or. Many of the most popular games in the past decade are procedurally generated and have nothing “intentionally” placed (apart from tuning/tweaking the balance of the seeding algorithms).
Which game would that be apart from Minecraft?
Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video
#33i see this and think about Suno's playbook where this could go... survival of the fittest rules the boards where you have user-generated-dynamic video games, not just static ones where design is fixed, the design will be adaptive... based off several prompt input boxes for various things and adhoc while playing, higher tier design boards and the like, this is all going toward user-gen commercial / vanity / personal enjoyment.
Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video
#34I struggle with these world models from the perspective of video games (so this post is a particular perspective). I'm not a game developer myself, but some of my favorite games carry a deep sense of intentionality. For instance, there is typically not a single item misplaced in a FromSoftware game (or, for instance, Lies of P -- more recently). Almost every object is placed intentionally. Games which lack this inten…
By and large I agree, but it doesn’t need to be either/or. Many of the most popular games in the past decade are procedurally generated and have nothing “intentionally” placed (apart from tuning/tweaking the balance of the seeding algorithms).
> have nothing “intentionally” placed (apart from tuning/tweaking the balance of the seeding algorithms).
I think you underestimate the intentionality that goes into developing procedural generation. Something like Dwarf Fortress isn't "place objects randomly" - it is layers upon layers of carefully crafted systems that build upon each other to produce specific patterns of outcome
Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video
#35What’s the long term utility of world models? There’s no doubt they’re technically impressive, but what does one do with it?
Games. Build campaigns in hours instead of months. Make it possible for users to create their own campaigns, move the action to different game worlds - 'gimme Mario Kart in the ${favourite_game} world', etc.
Yeah, but is this really that great? Are these models going to remember the town you wandered through on your session yesterday and want to return to?
Imagine playing Read Dead Redemption 2 and you attempt to ride your horse from Saint Denis to Valentine and Valentine no longer exists, or is a completely different town located half a mile off from where it was originally.
I just don't see how this would work...
Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video
#36I struggle with these world models from the perspective of video games (so this post is a particular perspective). I'm not a game developer myself, but some of my favorite games carry a deep sense of intentionality. For instance, there is typically not a single item misplaced in a FromSoftware game (or, for instance, Lies of P -- more recently). Almost every object is placed intentionally. Games which lack this inten…
FromSoftware-quality games are 50% of the market is abominable slop that very well might benefit from AI writing and design.
for example, I am 100% certain that ANY model could write a better Dragon Age sequel than the rotting corpse of Bioware did, because only humans can despise their audience and their source material. an LLM would dutifully attempt to produce more of the thing rather than 're-imagine' the thing for 'the modern audience'.
Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video
#37I struggle with these world models from the perspective of video games (so this post is a particular perspective). I'm not a game developer myself, but some of my favorite games carry a deep sense of intentionality. For instance, there is typically not a single item misplaced in a FromSoftware game (or, for instance, Lies of P -- more recently). Almost every object is placed intentionally. Games which lack this inten…
FromSoftware-quality games are 50% of the market is abominable slop that very well might benefit from AI writing and design. for example, I am 100% certain that ANY model could write a better Dragon Age sequel than the rotting corpse of Bioware did, because only humans can despise their audience and their source material. an LLM would dutifully attempt to produce more of the thing rather than 're-imagine' the thing f…
So? Parent still want to know how tools like these could potentially by used in a better way. That most people don't obsess over quality when building/doing things shouldn't mean that no one should.
Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video
#38I struggle with these world models from the perspective of video games (so this post is a particular perspective). I'm not a game developer myself, but some of my favorite games carry a deep sense of intentionality. For instance, there is typically not a single item misplaced in a FromSoftware game (or, for instance, Lies of P -- more recently). Almost every object is placed intentionally. Games which lack this inten…
What does intentionality mean in the context of a world model generated game-world? I guess true human intention would have been throw out the window already at that point.
One aspect of intentionality is that there’ll be a narrative payoff when you find something you find interesting. In videogames, the world is mostly pre-designed, so the designer has to predict what you’ll be interested in for the most part (In pen and paper RPGs, this is usually done better, because the human dungeon master/DM can plan ahead, but also improvise a payoff or modify the plot between sessions). If there was a world model generated game world, I guess the model would have to be “smart” though to setup and execute those payoffs.
An advantage that the world model would have (and shares with a good human DM) is that everything is an interactable, and the players get to pick what they think is interesting. If everything is improv with a loose skeleton around it, you don’t have to predict as far out. I think world model generated games, if they even become a thing, will be quite a bit worse than conventionally designed ones for a long time (improv can be quite shallow!) but have a lot of potential if they work out.
FromSoft is an interesting example. They make the game more believable by having extremely missable quests, just, most of them don’t block progress through the game, and you usually stumble across enough side quests naturally (although IMO the density was too low in Elden Ring, their system showed a bit of weakness in the less-guided context). The plot is pretty vague, but the vibes tell enough of a story that you don’t really mind. It’s sort of improv/pen-and-paper but the player’s imagination is doing the job of the DM.
Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video
#39I struggle with these world models from the perspective of video games (so this post is a particular perspective). I'm not a game developer myself, but some of my favorite games carry a deep sense of intentionality. For instance, there is typically not a single item misplaced in a FromSoftware game (or, for instance, Lies of P -- more recently). Almost every object is placed intentionally. Games which lack this inten…
If we use world models to train AI systems, are we not essentially forcing something to live so it can gather data for us?
Yes, we haven't gone that far with creating consciousness yet, but there is gonna be a lot of money around neural computing devices for consumers in the coming decades, so that will speed up knowing what sense data you need for consciousness.
Re: SANA-WM, a 2.6B open-source world model for 1-minute 720p video
#40ugly slop