Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets • Hacker News Board

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#31

Post by nxh76 » Sun, May 10, 2026, 7:08 PM UTC

alecco wrote: post #2

> Damian Cortinas, chair of ENTSO-E’s board, told the Financial Times that “the issue is not about renewables” but about the grid’s ability to manage “fast voltage variations” that can destabilise the system. Unusual oscillations triggered a cascade of plant disconnections, and grid managers lost control. The real lesson is not that Spain has gone too far on wind and solar, YES THEY DID, they went as far as making nu…

Also worth tracking whether consumption is increasing. Rebound Effect can kick in - when energy prices fall most people use more energy, produce/consume more junk, use more heat/cooling etc. Its like dealing with very low interest rates. It can produce a whole lot of brainless behaviour.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#32

Post by joe_mamba » Sun, May 10, 2026, 7:11 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #30

joe_mamba wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So energy in Spain is cheap because they produce a lot but can't sell a lot easily, and Austria/Central Europe is expensive because they sell their domestic energy too easily? If this is what you meant, then it sounds like an argument against free trade, if it means you keep ending up with the short stick.

Economists would say that the money coming in outweighs the higher costs and therefore you could redistribute that money and everyone comes out ahead. Whether that happens in real life is a different question.

>Economists would say that the money coming in

Does that money go directly into my pocket so I can afford the more expensive energy? Or does it go into the pocket of private energy companies?

Because I feel like there's some faults with this "free market", which is mostly just socializing losses and privatizing profits.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#33

Post by mhh__ » Sun, May 10, 2026, 7:13 PM UTC

pyrale wrote: post #27

The author's point is that Spain's electricity is very cheap compared to other European countries thanks to its great electricity mix, etc. The reality is that Spain's electricity is cheap because it is relatively insulated from Europe's core network, because its interconnections with other countries are limited. In financial words, there is a spread with the rest of Europe because the ways to arbitrage that spread a…

This is a lesson in how electricity isn't really a commodity e.g. it's very very difficult to send some electrons from one side of the world to another.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#34

Post by noprocrasted » Sun, May 10, 2026, 7:13 PM UTC

miohtama wrote: post #29

pyrale wrote: post #27

The author's point is that Spain's electricity is very cheap compared to other European countries thanks to its great electricity mix, etc. The reality is that Spain's electricity is cheap because it is relatively insulated from Europe's core network, because its interconnections with other countries are limited. In financial words, there is a spread with the rest of Europe because the ways to arbitrage that spread a…

Hmm. Everyone should just disconnect Germany, let them freeze, and enjoy cheap electricity?

Then you'd have people run extension cords across the border and selling their cheap electricity at inflated prices to their freezing neighbor.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#35

Post by pyrale » Sun, May 10, 2026, 7:14 PM UTC

miohtama wrote: post #29

pyrale wrote: post #27

The author's point is that Spain's electricity is very cheap compared to other European countries thanks to its great electricity mix, etc. The reality is that Spain's electricity is cheap because it is relatively insulated from Europe's core network, because its interconnections with other countries are limited. In financial words, there is a spread with the rest of Europe because the ways to arbitrage that spread a…

Hmm. Everyone should just disconnect Germany, let them freeze, and enjoy cheap electricity?

That's not my point. My point is that the price spread between EU electricity markets speaks more to the availability of interconnections than to the virtues of one country's electricity mix. The article gets to that conclusion because that's what it was looking for.

The one question the article leaves open, but which is pretty relevant, is the question about who should pays for stability services to the grid.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#36

Post by mhh__ » Sun, May 10, 2026, 7:15 PM UTC

PaulKeeble wrote: post #7

The past few years has also had Solar continuing to decrease in price so its increasingly going to be the primary choice. On top of that battery prices have been plummeting too so that now Solar + battery is cheaper than other options like Nuclear and especially Gas. Most of the EU will be running on Wind and Solar in the coming years, its a change that is now rapidly occuring based entirely on the rare economics. So…

You have to think about these things as a portfolio rather than just by minimum price.

If you have a steel mill for example you need to be able to basically guarantee a certain level of energy production to run it viably because the risk of there not being any power during adverse weather is enough to make it unviable (you can't just turn these things off). This is the reason why gas and nuclear probably aren't going away (or at least shouldn't).

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#37

Post by pyrale » Sun, May 10, 2026, 7:18 PM UTC

mhh__ wrote: post #33

pyrale wrote: post #27

The author's point is that Spain's electricity is very cheap compared to other European countries thanks to its great electricity mix, etc. The reality is that Spain's electricity is cheap because it is relatively insulated from Europe's core network, because its interconnections with other countries are limited. In financial words, there is a spread with the rest of Europe because the ways to arbitrage that spread a…

This is a lesson in how electricity isn't really a commodity e.g. it's very very difficult to send some electrons from one side of the world to another.

That it is treated as such speaks volumes to the craft of the people designing and maintaining the grid.

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#38

Post by generic92034 » Sun, May 10, 2026, 7:18 PM UTC

miohtama wrote: post #29

pyrale wrote: post #27

The author's point is that Spain's electricity is very cheap compared to other European countries thanks to its great electricity mix, etc. The reality is that Spain's electricity is cheap because it is relatively insulated from Europe's core network, because its interconnections with other countries are limited. In financial words, there is a spread with the rest of Europe because the ways to arbitrage that spread a…

Hmm. Everyone should just disconnect Germany, let them freeze, and enjoy cheap electricity?

You forget the times with an overproduction of electrical energy in Germany. Then they sell it for a negative price to the neighbor countries. Later, when they need more energy they buy it back at a premium. It is good business for neighbor countries with enough storage (pumping hydro, etc.).

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#39

Post by mhh__ » Sun, May 10, 2026, 7:18 PM UTC

miohtama wrote: post #29

pyrale wrote: post #27

The author's point is that Spain's electricity is very cheap compared to other European countries thanks to its great electricity mix, etc. The reality is that Spain's electricity is cheap because it is relatively insulated from Europe's core network, because its interconnections with other countries are limited. In financial words, there is a spread with the rest of Europe because the ways to arbitrage that spread a…

Hmm. Everyone should just disconnect Germany, let them freeze, and enjoy cheap electricity?

normally when you buy electricity it costs money!

Re: Spain has become one of Europe’s cheapest power markets

#40

Post by mhh__ » Sun, May 10, 2026, 7:22 PM UTC

pyrale wrote: post #37

mhh__ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a lesson in how electricity isn't really a commodity e.g. it's very very difficult to send some electrons from one side of the world to another.

That it is treated as such speaks volumes to the craft of the people designing and maintaining the grid.

Unfortunately in Britain at least politicians are absolutely dead set on taking the piss / abusing this by e.g. adding huge amounts of subsidy and stealth taxes into what should be price discovery mechanisms (or for example when was the last time you heard someone talking about how cheap renewables are and discuss the CfD schemes).