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PC Engine CPU

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Re: PC Engine CPU

#31

Post by tombert »

dfxm12 wrote: post #15
tombert wrote: post #13

I didn't grow up with the PC Engine or TurboGrafx, but I did start getting into it after I got the MiSTer. I find that the unsuccessful [1] consoles are generally pretty bad. The 3DO and the Jaguar and CD-i are mostly pretty crappy, and while it can be fun to play for a novelty and you might even find one or two games that make it worth it, the vast majority of the time there's a reason that people don't seriously re…

Tons of the games were simple shmups, so I can understand people who might have the wrong idea about the library. Also, the library in Japan was way more impressive than what made it to the west. Gekisha Boy in particular still stands out as a fun and unique game (though you can play a translated version on your Mister). Fire Pro 3 is an incredible wrestling game that I still play today (no japanese required). There…

I actually really liked Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu. The NES version is pretty ok too, but I think the TurboGrafx version is a bit better. There's also the Bonk games, Air Zonk, Alien Crush, and Legendary Axe: all pretty fun games with good art style and decent controls.

Rondo of Blood was actually the only PC-Engine game I had actually played before the MiSTer, and of course it's a classic for a reason, it's great.

Something I find charming in how utterly incompetent it is is the Addams Family game on the CD. I have no idea how the hell it was even released, let alone made, because it is absurdly bad. You play as the lawyer from the movie (the absolute least interesting character in the movie) and apparently all the Addams' want you actively fucking dead. It's so unbelievably terrible that I sort of got obsessed with it and managed to actually beat it.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#32

Post by warmjets222 »

mikepurvis wrote: post #20
dfxm12 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NEC made some great looking consoles, in Japan. The PC Engine, the PC Engine Shuttle, the IFU-30 unit "briefcase", and the SuperGrafx. I think console design peaked with the SuperGrafx. In the back of my mind, I have the idea that US regulations required extra shielding that the Japanese model lacked. Maybe this isn't the case. Maybe some American marketer decided it was just too cute or too small.

I think the redesign of the NES shell for the North American market was largely for vanity reasons, wasn't it? Entertainment system instead of computer, grey plastic instead of beige, front loading instead of top, long cartridges that were supposed to look like VCR tapes instead of toys.

My understanding was that after American retailers were burned so hard by the Atari crash, Nintendo wanted to position the NES as far from a 2600 as possible.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#33

Post by tombert »

garciansmith wrote: post #24
tombert wrote: post #13

I didn't grow up with the PC Engine or TurboGrafx, but I did start getting into it after I got the MiSTer. I find that the unsuccessful [1] consoles are generally pretty bad. The 3DO and the Jaguar and CD-i are mostly pretty crappy, and while it can be fun to play for a novelty and you might even find one or two games that make it worth it, the vast majority of the time there's a reason that people don't seriously re…

I wouldn't call the PC Engine unsuccessful. Sure it did poorly in the US, but it did well in Japan, even outsold the Mega Drive (Genesis). That's definitely part of the reason it had quite a few good games by Japanese companies.

Yeah, that's why I specified that it's relative. I honestly hadn't even heard of the Turbografx until I was a teenager, but I had a Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#34

Post by christkv »

wk_end wrote: post #14
alexyoung wrote: post #5

I restored a PC Engine a year or two ago and I also became fascinated by the hardware. The HuC6270 VDC/HuC6260 VCE graphics system is actually very flexible for the kinds of games the system was designed to play. If I remember correctly, it has background tilemaps, sprites, scrolling, 64kb video RAM, and a 512 colour palette. The hardware sprites/scrolling is what makes it feel more arcadey a lot of the time. Given t…

These sorts of things - sprites and scrolling tilemaps - were pretty standard for consoles of the time. C.f. the NES, Master System, Game Boy... OTOH if you're European, my impression is that micros were more popular in the 80s and early 90s than dedicated game consoles, and I guess those tended to lack robust sprite/scrolling support, and tended to be more frame buffer-y.

Amiga 500 was very popular in Europe which had those things. Framebuffer was definitely true for the Atari ST.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#35

Post by christkv »

ushimitsudoki wrote: post #27
ndiddy wrote: post #4

The PC Engine's CPU is probably its strongest aspect, Hudson did a great job here. Going with a really fast 8-bit CPU makes much more sense than Nintendo's choice of going with a slow 16-bit CPU, especially when the screen is 256 pixels wide so most of the calculations a game would be doing are only 8 bits anyway. Even when you have to do 16-bit calculations, the SNES CPU still has an 8-bit data bus so it doesn't hav…

I always assumed NEC designed this CPU, but it turns out Hudson Soft really did create it. Hudson was apparently a legendary company. If you look at their Japanese Wikipedia page, it’s filled with "heroic tales" that almost sound like jokes. https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B8%... The CPU was conceived by Hudson engineers who, despite their success in the NES business, felt they had hit the ha…

I think they tried to sell it to Nintendo at some point.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#36

Post by Tiktaalik »

tombert wrote: post #33
garciansmith wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call the PC Engine unsuccessful. Sure it did poorly in the US, but it did well in Japan, even outsold the Mega Drive (Genesis). That's definitely part of the reason it had quite a few good games by Japanese companies.

Yeah, that's why I specified that it's relative. I honestly hadn't even heard of the Turbografx until I was a teenager, but I had a Sega Genesis and Super Nintendo.

It's a real tragedy for North American gamers because it seems like we were robbed of a lot of truly amazing games for the PC Engine/TurboGrafx due to mistakes on the business side of things.

The PC Engine, released in 1987, was an incredible success in Japan, rivalling the Famicom, as its graphical effects blew the socks off Famicom players. I imagine it would have done the same in North America if it had released in 1987 or 1988 but sadly it somehow took until late August 1989 for it to be released! Years late!!!! By this point the NES was firmly established and the same month, the truly 16 bit Genesis would be released. Turbografx didn't stand a chance.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#37

Post by aquova »

Ah, I thought the URL sounded familiar. This is the dev of the new-on-the-scene but quite good jgenesis emulator. It started out doing just Sega systems, but has started branching out, sounds like the PCE is next.

Re: PC Engine CPU

#38

Post by wileydragonfly »

dfxm12 wrote: post #6
nicole_express wrote: post #2

The PC Engine CPU is highly underrated. People like to go "haha, it was the TurboGrafx-16 but its CPU was 8-bit" like that makes it a joke, but that clock speed boost on top of the 6502 architecture is a big deal. (The S-CPU on the SNES still has an 8-bit data bus too, so the 16-bit advantage isn't as strong as it seems) The Arcade Card add-on was designed specifically around using the transfer instructions to rapidl…

The amazing Street Fighter II' port didn't even need any add-ons! (Well, aside from the 6 button controller)

If they had just let you remap the controls so you had fierce and round house, the two button controller would have been serviceable. All the ports of that game are good. I’ve compared them side by side (SNES, Genesis, PCE) and they’re frankly all fun.

I did have a PCB worked up that lets you convert anything to a PC Engine controller. Can’t give them away!

Re: PC Engine CPU

#39

Post by xgkickt »

warmjets222 wrote: post #32
mikepurvis wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the redesign of the NES shell for the North American market was largely for vanity reasons, wasn't it? Entertainment system instead of computer, grey plastic instead of beige, front loading instead of top, long cartridges that were supposed to look like VCR tapes instead of toys.

My understanding was that after American retailers were burned so hard by the Atari crash, Nintendo wanted to position the NES as far from a 2600 as possible.

Which, despite the VCR-like appearance, meant no faux wood detailing ;-)

Re: PC Engine CPU

#40

Post by ndiddy »

wk_end wrote: post #11
ndiddy wrote: post #4

The PC Engine's CPU is probably its strongest aspect, Hudson did a great job here. Going with a really fast 8-bit CPU makes much more sense than Nintendo's choice of going with a slow 16-bit CPU, especially when the screen is 256 pixels wide so most of the calculations a game would be doing are only 8 bits anyway. Even when you have to do 16-bit calculations, the SNES CPU still has an 8-bit data bus so it doesn't hav…

Remember that the PC Engine came out in 1987, over three years before the SFC did. That makes Nintendo's CPU decisions even more questionable, but also explains the huge gap in graphics hardware - not just more background layers, but also effects like transparency, scaling and rotation, and richer colours.

Nintendo first demonstrated the Super Famicom hardware in November 1988: https://www.chrismcovell.com/secret/SFC_1988Q4.html . If you look at the hardware specifications listed, the only thing they changed between then and when it came out in 1990 is increasing the work RAM from 8 KB to 128 KB. I imagine they sat on the console for so long because the Famicom was still selling and they wanted to take the time to develop a good library of launch titles.
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