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Stop telling people to vote

jwz.org

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Re: Stop telling people to vote

#31

Post by paupino_masano »

dllthomas wrote: post #21

" Corrolary: You should vote "NO" on every Proposition unless you actually know what the fuck you're talking about. The California Proposition system is asinine, and the way to do least harm is to reject by default. " This is half correct, and that half is very much my policy. If the proposition is for something the legislature can and should be doing, I vote no; we are paying people to give these issues more time an…

No! I'd rather people don't vote than vote no on something they don't understand... Unless you understand what you're voting for: don't vote.

No vote is better than a misinformed one...

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#32

Post by corin_ »

LVB wrote: post #24

This is a non-issue, because they're clearly not listening (at least in the US). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout#International_dif...

48% turn-out doesn't mean people are listening, it could be that if so much effort didn't go into persuading people to vote that far fewer people would.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#33

Post by gojomo »

brennenHN wrote: post #8

The implied supremacy and paternalism in the post is pretty problematic. What is your threshold for informed? Should we have tests at the polls to make sure people have researched before they vote? Do you really want to make a case for an "informed" electorate instead of a more representative one? I know this post isn't saying to deny the vote to the "uninformed", just not to encourage them, but that sentiment implie…

Actually, the implied threshold is self-assessment. JWZ is suggesting: if you don't feel like you know or care enough to vote, feel free to not vote.

That's actually pretty fair and efficient.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#34

Post by tomjen3 »

ekimekim wrote: post #30
tomjen3 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been voting in all the elections I have been allowed to vote in. If I am ever forced to vote I won't. If the fine Is æarge enough, I will show up, get the ballot and rip it in pieces right then and there. Voting should be a privelege for the few who are very well informed, not the many who are not.

And I would have no problem with you tearing up the ballot. As long as you were forced to go there, collect it, and tear it up instead of voting. The important thing is that the effort required to vote or not vote should be the same. This prevents laziness, being too busy, as well as factors like transport or long lines from being part of your decision.

Would you have a problem with me instead voting for the closest equivalent of the nazi party?

Especially if that becoame the party to turn to for those of us who don't like to be forced to vote.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#35

Post by gojomo »

I'm happy to see someone take a stand against rampant, patronizing Non-Voter Intimidation.

Non-voting can be a sign of a healthy system: "Everything's working pretty good; I'm OK with either choice, or whatever my fellow citizens select."

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#36

Post by dllthomas »

paupino_masano wrote: post #31
dllthomas wrote: post #21

" Corrolary: You should vote "NO" on every Proposition unless you actually know what the fuck you're talking about. The California Proposition system is asinine, and the way to do least harm is to reject by default. " This is half correct, and that half is very much my policy. If the proposition is for something the legislature can and should be doing, I vote no; we are paying people to give these issues more time an…

No! I'd rather people don't vote than vote no on something they don't understand... Unless you understand what you're voting for: don't vote. No vote is better than a misinformed one...

> No vote is better than a misinformed one...

I precisely contend that, for certain categories of questions, that is not the case. If we want to try to pin this down with numbers somehow, it'll have to wait 'till morning though...

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#37

Post by svdad »

jacques_chester wrote: post #12
geuis wrote: post #9

I take a diametrically opposed viewpoint to this. Everyone should be required to vote. In Australia, among other nations, if you don't vote you pay a fine. Voting in the U.S. should be as mandatory as jury duty, if not more so. When you are required to do something, and when all of your peers, family, and friends are required to do the same thing, it generates a much greater discussion around it. There's this view in…

> When you are required to do something, and when all of your peers, family, and friends are required to do the same thing, it generates a much greater discussion around it. I'm Australian. Compulsory voting does no such thing. Australians begrudge voting (and that we must fully enumerate our preferences). The pragmatic reason for having compulsory voting is to provide a better sample of what the population wants. In…

> The pragmatic reason for having compulsory voting is to provide a better sample of what the population wants. In effect, to dilute the crazies.

Yes. It forces the expression of weak preferences which otherwise wouldn't be expressed.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#39

Post by jacques_chester »

geuis wrote: post #16
jacques_chester wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you are required to do something, and when all of your peers, family, and friends are required to do the same thing, it generates a much greater discussion around it. I'm Australian. Compulsory voting does no such thing. Australians begrudge voting (and that we must fully enumerate our preferences). The pragmatic reason for having compulsory voting is to provide a better sample of what the population wants. In…

Whether you begrudge it or not, the majority of Australians go to the polls when required, I assume. Generating discussion about something doesn't at all mean its something people take joy or pride in doing. That isn't a requirement in the equation. Transactional voting is perfectly adequate. Its the minimum requirement you need to have a successful democracy. It still leaves room for the politicians that want to ins…

My point was that requiring people to vote doesn't make them discuss voting. Most people simply aren't interested in politics in this country, unless it's the machinations of the local footy club.

Re: Stop telling people to vote

#40

Post by Tsagadai »

tomjen3 wrote: post #23
geuis wrote: post #9

I take a diametrically opposed viewpoint to this. Everyone should be required to vote. In Australia, among other nations, if you don't vote you pay a fine. Voting in the U.S. should be as mandatory as jury duty, if not more so. When you are required to do something, and when all of your peers, family, and friends are required to do the same thing, it generates a much greater discussion around it. There's this view in…

I have been voting in all the elections I have been allowed to vote in. If I am ever forced to vote I won't. If the fine Is æarge enough, I will show up, get the ballot and rip it in pieces right then and there. Voting should be a privelege for the few who are very well informed, not the many who are not.

What elitist tripe. I've worked polling booths in Australia where people have come in and done exactly that (they have actively made a decision not to vote). That is their choice and I think that should be respected. I have no respect for the people who passively or apathetically don't vote.

Politicians should represent the entire country and that is why I strongly support compulsory voting. Politicians should be forced to govern for all. That means people you disagree with and people you consider uninformed. That is also why I believe prisoners and convicted felons should also be given the right to a vote. If someone is going to pass laws that affect you, you should have a say in who that someone is.

Their votes (for any value of them) are just as important as yours and you should come down off your high horse and reconcile yourself with that reality.

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