Rights come with Obligations, so as long as they pay their taxes too, I'm OK with this
That's not how things work. Some people never pay taxes, but have rights.
Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists
31–40 of 196 posts
Re: Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists
#32It probably won't be long until we say the same thing about some "strong AI" robots.
Re: Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists
#33>> They believe dolphins and whales are sufficiently intelligent to justify the same ethical considerations as humans. I don't have a problem with extending legal protection to dolphins, but I do think that "intelligence" as the criteria is morally problematic, at least if it's the sole criteria. For instance, could a person with Down's Syndrome be denied protection from murder? The Christian worldview holds that hum…
The Christian worldview holds that human life has value intrinsically because God values it.
Protecting helpless/non-contributing life was happening long before Christianity.
Protecting helpless/non-contributing life is seen in almost all vertebrate+ life forms and seems to be a requirement for species advancement. The alligator mother allows its spawn to swim in and out of its mouth for protection, it doesn't eat them even though it could.
For instance, could a person with Down's Syndrome be denied protection from murder?
As thinking, social beings, we've extended the umbrella of protecting life to members of our species that are functionally disabled, even to the point where they can't take care of themselves.
It would be a significantly slippery slope hole in our Social Contract if we started trying to define who can and can't be murdered based upon genetic mutations.
Re: Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists
#34>> They believe dolphins and whales are sufficiently intelligent to justify the same ethical considerations as humans. I don't have a problem with extending legal protection to dolphins, but I do think that "intelligence" as the criteria is morally problematic, at least if it's the sole criteria. For instance, could a person with Down's Syndrome be denied protection from murder? The Christian worldview holds that hum…
"Especially considering how slippery the definition of 'intelligence' is."
I think 'intelligence' represents how slippery all concepts are. Think about the definition of intelligence. According to the most common scientific definition, it's basically the ability to see patterns. The funny thing about that is that the ability to see patterns is basically what makes someone a good scientist, so scientists have defined 'intelligence' to mean having the potential to be good at science. Similarly, if you look at the CIA, intelligence means having information about enemy countries, because that's what makes a good CIA officer. If you were to ask a painter about the definition of intelligence, they'd probably tell you that it has something to do with being good at painting.
All words are defined by the types of people who are most likely to spend time thinking about the definition of that word, which means that essentially every concept in the every language is fundamentally biased by the worldview of the sort of person who would spend time thinking about that concept. And since science, logic, and knowledge are fundamentally based on these concepts in terms of looking for what to talk about and measure, I think this may be a serious epistemological problem that leaves humans capped at a certain level in terms of what we can know.
This is also why I'm generally skeptical of sites like Less Wrong, as I think the real limits of rationality and human knowledge have almost nothing to do with the 'official' list of logical fallacies that these sites tend to focus on.
Re: Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists
#35I applaud this. It's time we stop drawing the line of where rights begin and end at the species barrier and start taking a characteristics based approach. What are the characteristics of a human that lead us to say one should have rights? If other species share those characteristics, they too should be granted those rights.
Re: Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists
#36>> They believe dolphins and whales are sufficiently intelligent to justify the same ethical considerations as humans. I don't have a problem with extending legal protection to dolphins, but I do think that "intelligence" as the criteria is morally problematic, at least if it's the sole criteria. For instance, could a person with Down's Syndrome be denied protection from murder? The Christian worldview holds that hum…
Your opinion is correct but don't drag Christianity here. Christianity did enough violence on the name of non-violent Jesus. Better you talk of universal human values.
He has the right to talk about whatever he likes. This is an open discussion.
Re: Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists
#37I'm very comfortable with this in the general case; I feel guilty eating bacon because pigs seem pretty smart. Still, rights always come paired up with responsibilities. Do we then try dolphins for rape or murder? Rather than saying certain categories of animals should have the same rights as humans, maybe we'd be better off saying certain categories of animals deserve a higher level of ethical and legal consideratio…
A 10 month old has no responsibilities. Certainly, though, she has rights.
Re: Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists
#38so long and thanks for all the fish..?
aquatic jerks?
Re: Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists
#39Rights come with Obligations, so as long as they pay their taxes too, I'm OK with this
The UN has said that broadband Internet is a basic human right. This is starting to get difficult.
The UN said that cutting down someone's Internet was a human right violation, not that broadband Internet is a basic human right (maybe it's implicit, but it's not the main purpose of the definition).
Now, on court, you could appeal to human rights (and, worst case scenario, to AI) if, for instance, you are being prosecuted for rousing up an insurgent concentration on Facebook. Equally, the UN could interpose when a country decides to cut off the Internet to avoid communication during chaos or protests.
Re: Dolphins deserve same rights as humans, say scientists
#40I'm very comfortable with this in the general case; I feel guilty eating bacon because pigs seem pretty smart. Still, rights always come paired up with responsibilities. Do we then try dolphins for rape or murder? Rather than saying certain categories of animals should have the same rights as humans, maybe we'd be better off saying certain categories of animals deserve a higher level of ethical and legal consideratio…
"Maybe we'd be better off saying certain categories of animals deserve a higher level of ethical and legal consideration."
Ethicists use the term animal welfare (as opposed to animal rights) for this reason. No one at least at this point thinks that animals should be allowed to vote, which is what equal rights for animals would imply.