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Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

smithsonianmag.com

31–40 of 58 posts

Re: Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

#31

> On its stern, researchers were shocked to find extensive remains of a castle, a kind of covered deck where the crew would have sought shelter. Records show that castles were distinctive features of medieval cogs, but no physical evidence of them had previously been identified. I suppose this explains why the thing that exists on more modern ships is called a “forecastle”. PS go check the pronunciation for that word…

‘Folksal’?

You aren’t wrong.

Re: Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, this is like the early railroads making steel cheaper via cheaper transport of bulk ore/coal, that made cheaper railroads, that then ship more products made of steel to larger markets opened by the extended rail networks, etc. This happened with tin all the way back in the Bronze Age, where a lot of it was shipped as ingots from industrial-scale mines / smelters in Cornwall all the way to the Mediterranean empir…

Also this stuff never happens by design. Some entrepreneur notices things and the costs, make a decision, suddenly more products exist, organic trading routes appear. There is no need for computers or grand design or hyper-managerial government. The market solves the problem

In the US context that's largely true, with the government providing useful regulations after the fact (allowing national corporations, railroad right-of-way law, etc.).

The exception being guys like JP Morgan who organized industry cartels that acted as private "central planners", part of which turned into the current Federal Reserve Bank.

But for countries like China and many others in Asia with strong state capacity, industrial policy was planned top-down for the "commanding heights" of industry like: roads, rail, shipping, airlines, telecom, steel, energy, etc., and that actually worked very well, faster than private markets alone, with the benefit of existing tech and models to follow.

Re: Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

#33
post #12

> Its planks are made of Pomeranian oak from modern-day Poland, and the wood of its frame came from the Netherlands. I'm surprised the raw materials came together over such a distance. That transporting lumber was economical back then is remarkable.

Well, as the article says: > Per the statement, the large vessels were made to sail north from the Netherlands, around Denmark and toward the Baltic Sea. [...] Uldum adds that shipbuilders made the cogs as large as possible to transport bulky cargo, like timber Once you've built one cog, you've got the ideal tool to fetch Polish timber to build more!

>Once you've built one cog, you've got the ideal tool to fetch Polish timber to build more!

It's cogs all the way down!

Re: Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

#34
post #4

Is there a paper somewhere? Statement from the Viking Museum: https://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/en/about-us/news-and-press... Documentary referenced in the statement (I think): https://www.dr.dk/drtv/episode/gaaden-i-dybet_-fra-ukendt-ha...

I am wondering if there is any historical record of the ship and/or its sinking.

Re: Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also this stuff never happens by design. Some entrepreneur notices things and the costs, make a decision, suddenly more products exist, organic trading routes appear. There is no need for computers or grand design or hyper-managerial government. The market solves the problem

In the US context that's largely true, with the government providing useful regulations after the fact (allowing national corporations, railroad right-of-way law, etc.). The exception being guys like JP Morgan who organized industry cartels that acted as private "central planners", part of which turned into the current Federal Reserve Bank. But for countries like China and many others in Asia with strong state capaci…

We are talking about a sophisticated international trading system that happened 600 years ago. Clearly you don’t need anything like that to make it happen. Let alone Ancient Rome, Greece, Assyria, Sumer…

Re: Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

#36

> Its planks are made of Pomeranian oak from modern-day Poland, and the wood of its frame came from the Netherlands. I'm surprised the raw materials came together over such a distance. That transporting lumber was economical back then is remarkable.

This is because the material characteristics were so important that there simply were no good alternatives. Just like you would use steel for one thing and aluminum for another today. There were whole libraries of wood samples that you could go and look at or even test to ensure that your structure held up. Windmills are another item where wood from multiple locations came together.

Wood ranges from one extreme to another in terms of density, hardness, ease of working, strength in various directions and so on. There are hardwoods that are so hard that you can't really work them with normal tools and there are softwoods so light that you have to handle them carefully or you'll dent them.

Re: Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

#37
post #3

Who would have guessed the Smithsonian of all organizations would have so many video popup ads. Isn’t the greatest experience on mobile when so little of the content can be seen due to popups.

It always amazes me how many people on "hacker news" don't use an ad-blocker.

Re: Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

#38
post #3

Who would have guessed the Smithsonian of all organizations would have so many video popup ads. Isn’t the greatest experience on mobile when so little of the content can be seen due to popups.

I can appreciate their troubles. How is someone supposed to pay for all the overhead that goes into research and writing these articles without a source of income. People also seem dead against subscriptions. The only way that seems to work is appealing to the LCD and raking in stream bucks but not all media/literature, especially the valuable kind, is conducive to that model.

>How is someone supposed to pay for all the overhead that goes into research and writing these articles without a source of income.

I'm not sure, but we've been trying the online advertising model for a few decades now, and it's been terrible. Pop-ups, pop-unders, malware, I could go on and on. At some point it's fine to just say "no" to the advertisers after so much abuse.

Also, there's nothing stopping a website from hosting their own ads: these generally are not blocked by ad-blockers because they're served from the same domain, rather than a known ad-serving domain. But they never want to do this for some reason.

Re: Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

#39
post #8
post #3

Who would have guessed the Smithsonian of all organizations would have so many video popup ads. Isn’t the greatest experience on mobile when so little of the content can be seen due to popups.

Smithsonian Mag used to be the Institution’s brain‑child, now it’s just a click‑bait lifestyle tabloid full of celebs. The magazine’s editorial directives have diverged from the institutions mission. They care more about pageviews and ads than research.

The front page has none of those things; I see:

* "Queen Bumblebees’ Tongues Aren’t Built for Slurping Nectar"

* "Why the Computer Scientist Behind the World’s First Chatbot Dedicated His Life to Publicizing the Threat Posed by A.I."

* "NASA to Resume Search for Missing Mars Orbiter"

* "Spaceflight Temporarily Changes the Position and Shape of Astronauts’ Brains, MRI Data Suggests"

... and more of the same.

Where have you seen what you describe?

Re: Found: Medieval Cargo Ship – Largest Vessel of Its Kind Ever

#40

> On its stern, researchers were shocked to find extensive remains of a castle, a kind of covered deck where the crew would have sought shelter. Records show that castles were distinctive features of medieval cogs, but no physical evidence of them had previously been identified. I suppose this explains why the thing that exists on more modern ships is called a “forecastle”. PS go check the pronunciation for that word…

The forecastle of a ship is in the forward part of a ship — at the front, not the back. Looking at renderings of cogs, the 'castle' at the stern seems more to anticipate the modern bulk carrier, with an accommodation block with bridge on top at the aft end, looking out over the cargo holds.
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