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Children and Helical Time

moultano.wordpress.com

31–40 of 130 posts

Re: Children and Helical Time

#31
post #2

I think time perception is contingent on cultural and lifestyle factors, I don't recognise it in my own life. My twenties (chaotic) lasted forever, now in my 30s, this last year in particular felt incredibly long (it was eventful and full of change). I rarely find myself on "autopilot". Is that why?

I think you are on to something. My theory is that the brain is good at compressing memories, so if you do mostly the same things every day it's not stored as a separate memory. I actually felt my 30s as one of the longest periods in my life, because of things that happened in my life

I would agree with this from subjective experience. My non-IT based career has been highly volatile with unintended unemployment, companies going out of business, changing entire sectors and roles many times. Huge volatility in relationships and partners also.

Much downside to this but the upside is my life feels incredibly long and I haven't even reached 50 yet. I have already lived numerous lives compared to the self that would have had a very stable life the last 25 years. My working life feels vastly longer than my very stable childhood. That came and went in the blink of an eye from this perspective.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#32
Best way is, don't make up new rules, don't come up with some new analysis and new ways of living etc. None of that is needed. Human life hasn't started just yesterday. Just live the way your ancestors lived. Don't give too much importance to children. Don't spend too much attention on them. Mind your work and let children mind their observation of the world around them.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#33
post #29

My kids go to a stem focused magnet school. I realize different cultures value different things but its depressing to me how many kids are pushed to dedicate their whole childhood to get into top Universities. We'd go to the beach and their friends couldn't come because they were doing extra APs or science fair or Math Olympics or similar. These kids got good grades but never went on a date, couldn't drive or go anyw…

I was partially (largely?) one of those other kids. Honestly, I loved it and, though it wasn’t perfect, I definitely wouldn’t re-roll my childhood if given the chance.

Later in life, I managed to catch up in dating and other aspects, but kept a good streak of nerd pride and am totally happy about that.

If you were to have observed my childhood and got depressed about it, that interpretation would have been misguided.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#34
post #6

> This is a depressing thought to consider in (linear) middle age, but it is hard to escape the feeling that it is essentially true. Childhood memories have an intensity and a vibrancy that it is difficult for the rest of life to match. Could anyone who is extremely fortunate and never had to work for money share their experience on this? I find that the years that I spent on art (playing around, learning new things,…

I, of course, have plenty of vivid memories from childhood. But I've also been fortunate to be able to travel in all senses - quick tourist vacation, a few months backpacking, and multi-year slow travel where I mostly just lived in different places (different nature settings, towns, cities etc).

Tourism is generally forgettable and I don't recommend it to anyone - save the money and do something where you live.

Backpacking feels meaningful in the moment, but is also largely forgettable. I truly have almost no meaningful memories from 2 separate 2 month trips in Europe and southeast Asia.

The slow travel is most recent, was the most "boring" but also, I think, most meaningful as I was explicitly focused on self-reflection and discovery of a more meaningful way to live after many years (or a lifetime, really) of aiming to be a better cog in the machine. I don't have a lot of "memories" - highlights that I reminisce about - from it, but rather various phase shifts/epiphanies in my understanding of myself, life, the world etc...

I now live in relative poverty in a poor country where I have been working for 7+ years to develop a project for the benefit of the multitudes who can't even conceive of being able to do anything that I've just describe. And for whom even childhood is rather joy and wonder-less, because of how hard life is. I'm mostly glued to my computer again, but it's not soul sucking in the way it was in a cubicle with spreadsheets - because the purpose is meaningful.

I do miss the slow travel days - they were absolutely the most enjoyable period of my life. But I've also met people who have done that for decades and they're profoundly sad people - they have no roots or connections anywhere, no meaningful vocation, etc.

A meaningful life is to be actively involved in the sorrows of the world, with joy.

Still, I really ought to get a bit more play and exploration back into my life.

In the past year, I've been coaching teen soccer/football and that has been wonderful. Both to help me fix my desk-broken body, as well as to help them, principally, become better humans. To succeed on the field they need to develop the same characteristics needed to succeed in life - discipline, determination, cooperation, empathy, solidarity, creativity, perspective, vision, patience, and more. The world around them is largely bereft of such things, so it has been challenging.

But they're vastly better at playing now than a year ago, and I've heard they generally behave better at home as well. The difference between this and the article's version of living through your kids is a) they're not my kids and b) I'm focused on helping them become proper adults via play, whereas the article is largely about recreating Neverland where everything is childish. I expect it'll be unlikely that I'll instill much community spirit in them - though, perhaps we'll incorporate some community service into the training at some point. But it all does seem meaningful.

Still, the real focus and crux of my life is the overarching project to help people everywhere become more self-sufficient. Hopefully I'll be finally ready in the next year or so to "go public" with it, and that people will be receptive to using it, collaborating, helping etc...

Re: Children and Helical Time

#35
post #27

> We feel time differently over our lives. As a toddler, an afternoon feels like an eternity. In middle age, “no matter how I try, those years just flow by, like a broken down dam.” For a 5 year old, a year was a fifth of their life, and feels like it. For a 40 year old, it is just another year. I think this explanation is true but incomplete. I believe it's also related to Critical Flicker Fusion Frequency [0], the…

That would.im theory make kids the best at certain sports like table tennis say. Is there an objective test?

That is largely true across a variety of sports. eSports like Starcraft typically peak between 18-22, and it's possible the real age is younger but minors are usually excluded from pro leagues because they can't sign contracts. Gymnastics seems to peak between age 13-16; it was enough of a problem that the FIG set an age limit of 16 so the sport wasn't dominated by prepubescent girls age 13-14 (18 for men because the events tend to be more strength-based than coordination-based). Top table tennis players usually tend to start between 4-6 [1] and win their championships around their early 20s. [2]

There's some lag between starting and being world-class simply because continued practice makes you better. Plus, you get much better at sustained focus and being able to connect disparate training experiences together as your consciousness develops in the teens.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/tabletennis/comments/1i085sr/a_coll...

[2] https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/what-is-the-pe...

Re: Children and Helical Time

#36
"The basic stratum of the personality and the associated underlying belief systems that hold it in place derive from a number of factors: the shadow aspects of parents; the same unresolved elements in the lives of grandparents (the ovum from which the mother sprang was already formed at eleven weeks gestation in the maternal grandmother); a commensurate and immeasurable twine of psychogenetic ancestral memories; the prenate’s own “baggage” from pre-conception; the experience of the conception itself; the phenomenology of implantation; and the whole duration of the gestation period; all together form layers of affect in this self-forging process."

William R. Emerson, Ph.D. https://emersonbirthrx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Journa...

Re: Children and Helical Time

#37
A typical person in the western world spends like 4 hours on their phone each day. They also spend 8 hours at work, doing mostly the same-ish thing over and over again. Then there's commute along the same routes, and our habits and ways of life we calcify into. The brief moments of mental freedom are often terrorized by the anxiety induced by what we consumed during our phone binges. Let's add some degree of sleep deprivation into the mix. Might all of that have something to do with how we perceive life and how fast and meaninglessly it goes by?

Re: Children and Helical Time

#38
post #10

Sure enough, if you model life experience as a 2d plot, you are going to have to simplify things quite a bit. Yes, time "felt" longer for a child (especially when the child has to wait or wants something yet to come, less so when it's time spent on video games), and children are particularly impatient compared to adults. But is that experiencing life, though? How many strong memories from that "logarithmic first half…

I think you nailed it. This person is not living, and may never live. When their birds fly the coop and, worse, when they themselves retire, they're in for a whole world of emptiness.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#39
Regarding the perception of time, I have a complete opposite perception of the author. He mentions 20 as a middle point. I was after that, in my 20s when I first took real full control. I can remember the times before that. But I did so many "firsts" after that! My childhood years feel very short and boring to me; while the time after that feels gigantic and exciting.

There is so much in the world and so precious little time, I cannot really imagine running out of new "firsts" to do. Just I think many people never take control.

(The article itself seems to be more about raising children, being dad and fulfillment than the comments and title suggest)

Re: Children and Helical Time

#40
post #6

> This is a depressing thought to consider in (linear) middle age, but it is hard to escape the feeling that it is essentially true. Childhood memories have an intensity and a vibrancy that it is difficult for the rest of life to match. Could anyone who is extremely fortunate and never had to work for money share their experience on this? I find that the years that I spent on art (playing around, learning new things,…

>I find that the years that I spent on art (playing around, learning new things, not taking other peoples' orders) lasted longer than the ones I spent doing software development for money.

>I personally don't find the logarithmic experience theory convincing.

I think this tracks though. When you do art or other things you can explore different things. Doing the same thing for 40-60h per week is just not such a varied experience.

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