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Children and Helical Time

moultano.wordpress.com

21–30 of 130 posts

Re: Children and Helical Time

#21
post #6

> This is a depressing thought to consider in (linear) middle age, but it is hard to escape the feeling that it is essentially true. Childhood memories have an intensity and a vibrancy that it is difficult for the rest of life to match. Could anyone who is extremely fortunate and never had to work for money share their experience on this? I find that the years that I spent on art (playing around, learning new things,…

My family was not wealthy but I got the luck being born in the EU in a country where edu and Healthcare were basically free and you really cannot end up under a bridge unless extreme mental (and drugs issues that follow that) problems. My parents, even though we did not have much, always taught us to never follow orders unless you think they make sense and follow our own path. I guess that is why I mostly have no difference in vividness; I always did my own thing, that happens to be writing software so I got lucky and got rich by building stuff I thought was nice and needed. I still do that while also doing art (welding sculptures and writing). 2025 was not less vibrant than my childhood. Of course I am the most annoying employee; if you tell me 'have to', I will definitely never ever do it. So I never been an employee; guess that is the luxury you mentioned.

I have no clue how it would have turned out if I would have grown up in a country without a safety net. I hope the same as I never needed that net and will never need it, however I am not so sure; it makes taking risks very easy...

Re: Children and Helical Time

#22

The premise is that life stops being novel around 20 to suit this argument- but you can easily argue that that's more around 30 or even 40

Isn't the general principle sound? That novel experiences become rarer as we get older, leading subjective life to be highly skewed towards youth.

That's assuming novelty is the only way to live long subjectively. Is that a decent assumption? Personally I find subjective life longer if you just take your time, no pun intended.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#23
This was a both a nice, and extremely depressing, read.

It sounds like the author has had a good childhood and is a good parent to their kids. Wonderful.

But the whole article is appropriately summarized by their final sentences

> You recreate your memories in them. They recreate childishness in you. Life folds back on itself, but not quite the same. It loops, but continues. A helix. > > Life, then, is the creation of childhoods. You have yours, and then you get to create childhoods for others. The time is yours, and theirs

They have completely given up on their own life, and the possibility that they, too, could live in a child-like way, where they have their own wonder, joy etc.

Eg

> Children make you childlike. Skipping through the park as an adult man raises eyebrows (deservedly or not.) Skipping through the park as an adult man with your son or daughter skipping next to you on your arm is one of life’s greatest joys, both for you and for anyone who sees you.

Why do you care about people's eyebrows? Go skip, play, dance, be curious, be creative - whether just for the sake of it, or also in your "work".

Your kids need to see you actually living so that they, too, might be able to actually live once they've moved into adulthood.

> Your Christmas trees get smaller, your lights less ambitious. Some find all of these fun for their own sake, but if you are not the type of person who finds ritual appealing you will likely find yourself slowly disconnecting from holidays. You will find yourself asking what all the hustle bustle is for. > > Kids. That’s who it’s for. Of all the experiences that children renew, traditions are renewed the most. When you put up a Christmas tree, it’s for kids. When you decorate for Halloween, it’s for kids. All of these holidays are in essence a celebration of childhood, and children let you see them all for the first time again. If you remember the excitement of galumphing

Christmas, and other traditions, are NOT about trees and lights and presents. Thanksgiving is not about waiting to stampede a Walmart to buy crap. It's about genuine communion with family, friends, or - if you're particularly clued in - even strangers who don't have such traditions available to them.

And so on.

They talk about the joy of showing kids Saturn in a telescope. I won't argue with that. But that doesn't mean an adult can't have joy in discovering new things in the cosmos - be it through a career or hobby in telescopes, or exploring all parts of nature, from microbes to volcanoes. Whether as a hobby or a career.

This person is missing the point of everything.

We must do as nietzsche described and progress from a camel, to a lion, to a child again. Joseph Campbell - a wonderful interpreter and guide of all of these things - explains it all well, a quote of which is at this page https://centeroflighttulsa.org/three-transformations-spirit/

Re: Children and Helical Time

#24
I have a pet theory that everybody gets one lifetime, and no matter how long that life is, it always subjectively feels like one lifetime. Whether you live three days or a hundred years, it will always feel about the same amount of time, both interminable and too short.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#25
Maybe by realizing that this is a crazy idea?

Half of your life is childhood because you weighed subjective experiences differently when you had no knowledge or life experiences so you should change your life based on that situation where you were in Plato’s cave?

Actually fuck even this title is bad. If life is subjective, don’t ask how “we” should live. Subjectiveness means that’s a “you” question.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#26
I quote for context:

> But what about those of us who are well into the flattening part of the curve, what can we do for ourselves? You can seek new experiences perhaps. If time goes faster because your life has fewer firsts and more routine, then it can be extended by adding firsts. You can learn new things, travel, take up hobbies, or new careers.

> This works, to a point, but there are only so many firsts for you, and chasing this exclusively seems to lead to resentment. You remember the things you had as a kid. You remember the excitement and warmth of that world, how immediate and raw everything felt, and you want to go back. You start to regret that the world has changed, even though what changed the most is you.

I like to think that life slows down once you form a stable image and story of yourself. The more you convince yourself that that image is fixed, the faster time will go by. That might justify why childhood seems longer, since that image seems to form around adolescence.

Experiencing new "firsts" but keeping that image of yourselfe fixed just works for a while. That is why it may lead to resentment, as the article says.

So dont fool yourself: some image of who you are gives you some stability, but just use it for that, so that you dont run crazy with options.

If you treat every event as something that might reshape your ego, then suddenly a big number of experiences are new, and time suddenly slows dont. It may even appear to dissapear from time to time.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#27
> We feel time differently over our lives. As a toddler, an afternoon feels like an eternity. In middle age, “no matter how I try, those years just flow by, like a broken down dam.” For a 5 year old, a year was a fifth of their life, and feels like it. For a 40 year old, it is just another year.

I think this explanation is true but incomplete. I believe it's also related to Critical Flicker Fusion Frequency [0], the way I see it, if an organism is smaller it has a higher frequency, it sees more image per second, therefore perception of time is slower. (E.g. a fly sees you moving really slowly). Maybe it's related to the processing time of images, with smaller brains insect can process more of them per second.

Maybe humans process more images as children, therefore see the time time going slower.

It's been a while I didn't think about this, maybe some studies have been made in the past years.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_fusion_threshold

Re: Children and Helical Time

#28
post #27

> We feel time differently over our lives. As a toddler, an afternoon feels like an eternity. In middle age, “no matter how I try, those years just flow by, like a broken down dam.” For a 5 year old, a year was a fifth of their life, and feels like it. For a 40 year old, it is just another year. I think this explanation is true but incomplete. I believe it's also related to Critical Flicker Fusion Frequency [0], the…

That would.im theory make kids the best at certain sports like table tennis say. Is there an objective test?

Re: Children and Helical Time

#29
My kids go to a stem focused magnet school. I realize different cultures value different things but its depressing to me how many kids are pushed to dedicate their whole childhood to get into top Universities. We'd go to the beach and their friends couldn't come because they were doing extra APs or science fair or Math Olympics or similar. These kids got good grades but never went on a date, couldn't drive or go anywhere by themselves.

Re: Children and Helical Time

#30
post #6

> This is a depressing thought to consider in (linear) middle age, but it is hard to escape the feeling that it is essentially true. Childhood memories have an intensity and a vibrancy that it is difficult for the rest of life to match. Could anyone who is extremely fortunate and never had to work for money share their experience on this? I find that the years that I spent on art (playing around, learning new things,…

Never been rich but .. who's richer, the one who has more stuff / buying power or the one who has less material needs? Anyway, I was always pretty frugal and lucked out on passive income 6 years ago but even before that I never had full time jobs and all my life I basically worked just enough to get by, never cared much about saving.

From my experience childhood felt like grinding my way to max level in an MMO. Had to be done to start playing the game but didn't really care for it. I had more freedom since I was 18 than before so I cherish those memories more.

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