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Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

sdstate.edu

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Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#31

Post by gerdesj »

This is a novel material with a set of properties and a production "story" that looks rather cool - recycled vines.

If those parameters meet the requirements for a material that you need to use then cool. Use it. I don't see any attributes in this article, which is fine but "stronger than ..." is a bit weak.

The biodegradeable thing is probably going to be key if this stuff can hold hot liquids without poisoning the imbiber or can make plackey bags without falling to bits within seconds.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#32

Post by hedora »

mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

I’d guess paper would work fine for that purpose, except that it’s harder for the checkout person.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#33

Post by lazide »

red369 wrote: post #29
exabrial wrote: post #17

Yeah that’s the problem. Plastic solves a logistics problem, not a structural problem. Are your Twinkies stuck in a hot truck in Texas for a week? No problem!

I don't know much about this area at all, but it seems like it would be neat to have a plastic that stood up well to heat and moisture, but you could leave it soaking in some petrol/diesel/oil liquid, and it would melt into that and leave you with something still useable. As I write this, it sounds like I'm just describing something like petrol in a solid form at room temperature. Perhaps there's something a little l…

Petrol is really quite harsh and includes cancerous chemicals like benzene in sizable quantities. It’s not something you can soak something in and then use to expose to food.

Diesel and other oils tend to be (somewhat) less bad - but there are many oils in food which are nearly identical, and hence anything which breaks down in those situations is likely to breakdown while in food contact too.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#34

Post by lazide »

loktarogar wrote: post #30
PunchyHamster wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those need to hold hot and wet things for long enough without contaminating them.

Agree, but I don't see any mention of that in the article, so I don't have enough information to argue for that. I'm sure we can agree though that having 17-day decomposing plastics that don't contaminate with heat and water is a good thing, so I hope it is that.

I’m pretty sure 17 days is far too short for most serious uses.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#35

Post by weaksauce »

mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

the places around here are using compostable plastic bags. not sure what it's made of but it can be composted in municipal facilities according to the bag. one downside is they are green tinted and harder to see what is in there but if it removes some of the plastic killing the ocean then i'm for it... assuming it's not a plastic that degrades into microplastics.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#36

Post by hedora »

DemocracyFTW2 wrote: post #16
542458 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument, which doesn't seem insane, is that this film is useful because it is particularly optically clear and strong, which are not properties I would have expected from cellulose. I agree 17 days is too short, but that seems like an interesting opportunity for future research. I would highlight that the number is 17 days when buried in wet soil , not sitting around on a shelf. Cardboard will break down when bu…

> optically clear and strong, which are not properties I would have expected from cellulose You never heard of Cellophane? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellophane

Or movie / photographic film?

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#37

Post by ars »

mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

The plastic bag also prolongs the life of the produce, which is the main reason I want it.

Wasting produce is much worse for the environment than wasting a bag. After all if you don't litter the bag, throwing it out is pretty harmless.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#38

Post by squigz »

mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

Why not use a fabric bag?

Either way good on you

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#39

Post by ars »

weaksauce wrote: post #35
mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

the places around here are using compostable plastic bags. not sure what it's made of but it can be composted in municipal facilities according to the bag. one downside is they are green tinted and harder to see what is in there but if it removes some of the plastic killing the ocean then i'm for it... assuming it's not a plastic that degrades into microplastics.

> but if it removes some of the plastic killing the ocean then i'm for it

It doesn't. The plastics in the ocean don't come from your grocery store. They come from fishing gear and from places without municipal trash service.

Honestly? It's basically greenwashing, it doesn't actually do anything at all. No one ever composts this things, and landfilling or incinerating a bag does not harm the environment.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#40

Post by weaksauce »

gerdesj wrote: post #31

This is a novel material with a set of properties and a production "story" that looks rather cool - recycled vines. If those parameters meet the requirements for a material that you need to use then cool. Use it. I don't see any attributes in this article, which is fine but "stronger than ..." is a bit weak. The biodegradeable thing is probably going to be key if this stuff can hold hot liquids without poisoning the…

they linked to the study... https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2025/fb/d5fb0...

> These films exhibit a transparency of 83.70–84.30% mm−1 and a tensile strength of 15.42–18.20 MPa. They biodegrade within 17 days in soil at 24% moisture content. These films demonstrate outstanding potential for food packaging applications. Our research approach of repurposing agricultural byproducts to create high-value products helps reduce plastic waste, conserve the environment, and provide economic benefits to farmers.

on the lower end of plastics but might be fine for this application: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/3-Tensile-strength-and-i...

seems comparable to LDPE which i think the common bags are made from.

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