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23andMe is out of bankruptcy and it still hasn’t substantially changed its ways

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Re: 23andMe is out of bankruptcy and it still hasn’t substantially changed its ways

#31

Post by vintermann »

chneu wrote: post #22
seanvelasco wrote: post #4

i'm curious, what's the worst-case scenario if one were to put their whole DNA data exposed publicly? would a future civilization re-make your image? or are there societal benefits?

what's the best case scenario?

Best case scenario is that you can answer a ton of historical questions that you wouldn't have a chance to otherwise.

I'm currently in the process of figuring out where my most distant known paternal-line ancestor came from. Took a Y-DNA test, found a very distant all-male line cousin who was open to taking a Y DNA test (because he had already taken one at 23andMe, I knew the odds were good that he would be OK with it - the 23andMe test also had enough Y information that I knew it was likely we both descended from the same man).

His first results came in yesterday. In another couple of weeks, when his Y SNPs come in, we'll know which of my ~10 private mutations (ones no one else has been found to share) we have in common, which will in turn put better time estimates on our distance to other testers in our part of the Y-tree.

Re: 23andMe is out of bankruptcy and it still hasn’t substantially changed its ways

#33

Post by newman8r »

chneu wrote: post #22
seanvelasco wrote: post #4

i'm curious, what's the worst-case scenario if one were to put their whole DNA data exposed publicly? would a future civilization re-make your image? or are there societal benefits?

what's the best case scenario?

Best case scenario is it's used to identify unknown remains, or help locate a murder suspect who's probably distantly related to you (i.e. a 5th cousin you never met). More of these samples makes it harder for serial killers to stay hidden for too long.

Re: 23andMe is out of bankruptcy and it still hasn’t substantially changed its ways

#34

Post by abbotcabbot »

vintermann wrote: post #26
slg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The analogy I have used in the past is this fear is like thinking that health insurance companies were more likely to buy the old Marlboro Miles database rather than just making detailing your smoking history a required part of the application process. If these companies have the legal clearance to use DNA data, why would they be satisfied only having secondhand access to that data for a relatively small subset of th…

Yes. Behavioral data is in most cases far more useful to them than DNA. No need to go all the way of using the non-coding SNPs in a genealogical test to infer your coding DNA, to infer your propensity for smoking, when they can just find out if you smoke instead.

It may have been the lower hanging fruit. But they already have all the tools and behavior analysis is no longer the competitive edge. They can ask for your smoking status and deny your claim for fraud later, but (any genetic data on behavior is an update to fraud investigation value and) they can't know your propensity to non-smoker cancers.

Re: 23andMe is out of bankruptcy and it still hasn’t substantially changed its ways

#35

Post by a_bonobo »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #21
wslh wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly, one risk is that your DNA, or that of a close relative could be linked to a crime, even if you weren't directly involved.

DNA isn’t guilt by association. Cops still need real evidence—this isn’t CSI fan fiction.

>Identification of DeAngelo began in December 2017 when officials, led by detective Paul Holes and FBI lawyer Steve Kramer, uploaded the killer's DNA profile from a Ventura County rape kit to the personal genomics website GEDmatch.[182] The website identified 10 to 20 people who had the same great-great-great-grandparents as the Golden State Killer; a team of five investigators working with genealogist Barbara Rae-Venter used this list to construct a large family tree.[183] From this tree, they established two suspects; one was ruled out by a relative's DNA test, leaving DeAngelo the main suspect.[184]

>On April 18, 2018, a DNA sample was surreptitiously collected from the door handle of DeAngelo's car;[64] another sample was later collected from a tissue found in DeAngelo's curbside garbage can.[185]

DNA as the guilt-by-association, they then will get the evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_James_DeAngelo#Arrest,_...

Re: 23andMe is out of bankruptcy and it still hasn’t substantially changed its ways

#36

Post by Terr_ »

ks2048 wrote: post #11

I do worry about my data with them, but when I think about the worst-case scenario - you will not get insured (or have high rates) because you have {some genetic condition}.. it seems just as likely that they will simply require my DNA to apply for insurance. (or get my DNA from a blood test within their system, etc.). The obvious solution is with legislation for transparency and better health care system.

One aspect to this tangle is knowledge asymmetry: One of the traditional justifications for insurers poking around is to guard against an applicant that conceals important factors as a kind of fraud.

But what about the reverse? There's something intuitively unjust about the customer not knowing why they're being charged a higher rate, especially if it means the company believes there's a potential danger (enough that it affects the bottom-line) but conceals it.

So yeah, I think "transparency" is a robust principle to follow here, especially if anyone is arguing market competition is going to curb the worst abuses.

Re: 23andMe is out of bankruptcy and it still hasn’t substantially changed its ways

#37

Post by [deleted] »

ks2048 wrote: post #11

I do worry about my data with them, but when I think about the worst-case scenario - you will not get insured (or have high rates) because you have {some genetic condition}.. it seems just as likely that they will simply require my DNA to apply for insurance. (or get my DNA from a blood test within their system, etc.). The obvious solution is with legislation for transparency and better health care system.

[deleted]

Re: 23andMe is out of bankruptcy and it still hasn’t substantially changed its ways

#38

Post by Terr_ »

data_maan wrote: post #28
willcipriano wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I put a fake name in when I signed up. Good luck blue cross.

I always wondered why people are so trusting (gullible?) to use their real data

If they have enough DNA and not-so-secret genealogical data, they can derive your real name anyway.

Re: 23andMe is out of bankruptcy and it still hasn’t substantially changed its ways

#40

Post by lnsru »

rixed wrote: post #30
echelon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you will not get insured (or have high rates) because you have {some genetic condition}.. s/insured/hired Wait until we have DNA detectors wired up to collect the DNA we exhale and rapid sequencers that handle what might be below the limit of detection today. Maybe that's fifty years down the road, but it's coming. Gattaca was a prescient premonition, it was just a hundred years ahead of its time.

Either you or me are deeply wrong about how genotypes relate to phenotype. While some DNA characteristics can be statistically linked with some costly health conditions, the connection to "being a good hire" seems totally imaginary to me, has always been and will always be. For what it's worth, public posts and comments on internet are probably a much better indicator of whether someone is going to be an obedient emp…

The samples of DNA of the best employees will be collected, evaluated and compared to applicants. So if your DNA is similar they will let you in. Wait for a clever startup to offer a complete solution for this comparison soon.
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