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Matrix v1.15

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Re: Matrix v1.15

#31

Post by throwaway98334 »

Arathorn wrote: post #29
cpfiffer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why exactly don't people use matrix that much? It strikes me as a reasonably good open, secure comms protocol.

One of the big problems is that folks judge Matrix based on the legacy Element apps, which have now been succeeded by Element X: https://element.io/blog/we-have-lift-off-element-x-call-and-... etc. Element X kicks ass, in my (very biased) opinion: it's a super-speedy Rust core with fancy SwiftUI and Compose native UI layered on top. It radically outperforms any other encrypted messenger i've used in terms of UI perf…

> One of the big problems is that folks judge Matrix based on the legacy Element apps, which have now been succeeded by Element X

Which is mobile-only. Element's UX on desktop is still a joke.

> These days, the priority at Element is providing a self-hosted, decentralised WhatsApp and Teams replacement for governments... and once we get sustainable doing that, we'll be able to spend time building community features once again.

In other words, you don't have the community's best interests in mind, but we should rest safe because you'll have their best interests in mind at some point in the future, maybe.

Not very reassuring.

Re: Matrix v1.15

#32

Post by Arathorn »

throwaway98334 wrote: post #31
Arathorn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the big problems is that folks judge Matrix based on the legacy Element apps, which have now been succeeded by Element X: https://element.io/blog/we-have-lift-off-element-x-call-and-... etc. Element X kicks ass, in my (very biased) opinion: it's a super-speedy Rust core with fancy SwiftUI and Compose native UI layered on top. It radically outperforms any other encrypted messenger i've used in terms of UI perf…

> One of the big problems is that folks judge Matrix based on the legacy Element apps, which have now been succeeded by Element X Which is mobile-only. Element's UX on desktop is still a joke. > These days, the priority at Element is providing a self-hosted, decentralised WhatsApp and Teams replacement for governments... and once we get sustainable doing that, we'll be able to spend time building community features o…

> Which is mobile-only. Element's UX on desktop is still a joke.

Actually, we span up Element X on web a few weeks ago and are currently figuring out how to transplant EW's view layer (which is fine) onto matrix-rust-sdk (which is more than fine): https://matrix.org/blog/2025/06/05/this-week-in-matrix-2025-... etc.

> In other words, you don't have the community's best interests in mind, but we should rest safe because you'll have their best interests in mind at some point in the future, maybe.

I'd argue that by having spent >10 years building out Matrix and Element as open source, we've demonstrated that we have the FOSS community very much in mind. But we'll only be able to continue doing that as our day jobs if we can pay our salaries, and the way to do that appears to be to sell enterprise Matrix distributions to Governments. Once we get financially sustainable doing that, we'll be able to focus more on the community again.

> Not very reassuring.

Au contraire, mon capitaine; I find it very reassuring that Element might finally be approaching a position to keep working on improving Matrix indefinitely :D

Re: Matrix v1.15

#33

Post by Arathorn »

WD-42 wrote: post #28
encom wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From time to time, I go and check if there's a stable non-Electron Matrix client available - Qt would be nice. Thus, I'm still on IRC. I've tried participating in some bridged Matrix channels, but the IRC bridges I've encountered were super annoying. All messages come from one user, the bridge. Very often, the same message gets repeated twice or more, for some reason. I guess Matrix has no limit on usernames, so some…

The QT client for Matrix is called Nheko: https://nheko-reborn.github.io/ There's a client in just about every toolkit. Just takes a cursory internet search...

There's also a really great Gtk client called Fractal from GNOME; it uses the same matrix-rust-sdk as Element X: https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/fractal.

Meanwhile the plan for Aurora (Element X Web) is to run it in Tauri or similar to placate all the Electron-haters: https://github.com/element-hq/aurora

Re: Matrix v1.15

#34

Post by stasy01 »

cpfiffer wrote: post #12
sneak wrote: post #10

None of these things are why I and everyone I know doesn’t use Matrix.

Why exactly don't people use matrix that much? It strikes me as a reasonably good open, secure comms protocol.

It doesn't look consumer friendly at all to set up

Re: Matrix v1.15

#35

Post by crossroadsguy »

Arathorn wrote: post #29
cpfiffer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why exactly don't people use matrix that much? It strikes me as a reasonably good open, secure comms protocol.

One of the big problems is that folks judge Matrix based on the legacy Element apps, which have now been succeeded by Element X: https://element.io/blog/we-have-lift-off-element-x-call-and-... etc. Element X kicks ass, in my (very biased) opinion: it's a super-speedy Rust core with fancy SwiftUI and Compose native UI layered on top. It radically outperforms any other encrypted messenger i've used in terms of UI perf…

It's been years of seeing Matrix posts being made on hn here (and founder - that is you - enthusiastically replying to comments; which is actually nice that you still care) and even that is long after I finally gave up on it realising it is (and now it seems was never even planned to be) a communication tool for the "masses" or end users - you know - you, I and our friends and family... kind of.

Reason? It is still "work" to even try to start using Matrix and yes I tried the kicks-ass-new-swift-client and it seems to be just another dull almost useless iOS messaging app which was done as a proof of concept of an open source project with very high values and goals and completely missing the point of usability and what people need and where smartphone messaging is today.

Also by the way - how many has it been? Matrix -> Riot -> Element.. is it changing again now?

> 80% of the people who say "Matrix sucks" are actually talking about bad experiences on the old Element mobile apps

Maybe 100% of times you are missing the point why people think that way by just assuming this?

> self-hosted, decentralised WhatsApp and Teams replacement for governments

Well, I do hope you realise that "Govt as the entity" per se that would not use these apps - but "the people" (which actually kinda comes back to you, I, and our friends) in those governments will use those apps and services.

Anyway, good luck.

Re: Matrix v1.15

#36

Post by throwaway98334 »

Arathorn wrote: post #32
throwaway98334 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the big problems is that folks judge Matrix based on the legacy Element apps, which have now been succeeded by Element X Which is mobile-only. Element's UX on desktop is still a joke. > These days, the priority at Element is providing a self-hosted, decentralised WhatsApp and Teams replacement for governments... and once we get sustainable doing that, we'll be able to spend time building community features o…

> Which is mobile-only. Element's UX on desktop is still a joke. Actually, we span up Element X on web a few weeks ago and are currently figuring out how to transplant EW's view layer (which is fine) onto matrix-rust-sdk (which is more than fine): https://matrix.org/blog/2025/06/05/this-week-in-matrix-2025-... etc. > In other words, you don't have the community's best interests in mind, but we should rest safe becaus…

Well, it looks like my overly cynical response wasn't warranted. Best of luck in your future endeavours and I hope you manage to get the money you need without locking too many features behind enterprise Matrix.

EDIT: I do still find issue with the claim that Element X is the solution to every UX problem though. Sure, you've begun experimenting with a web version of it, but it's still in the very early stages - it's not exactly production-ready.

Re: Matrix v1.15

#37

Post by rd07 »

WD-42 wrote: post #28
encom wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From time to time, I go and check if there's a stable non-Electron Matrix client available - Qt would be nice. Thus, I'm still on IRC. I've tried participating in some bridged Matrix channels, but the IRC bridges I've encountered were super annoying. All messages come from one user, the bridge. Very often, the same message gets repeated twice or more, for some reason. I guess Matrix has no limit on usernames, so some…

The QT client for Matrix is called Nheko: https://nheko-reborn.github.io/ There's a client in just about every toolkit. Just takes a cursory internet search...

There is also Neochat from KDE, not fully featured like Element and E2E Encryption still experimental the last time I checked, but it is a nice alternative if you want a non-Electron client.

Re: Matrix v1.15

#38

Post by zamadatix »

Arathorn wrote: post #29
cpfiffer wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why exactly don't people use matrix that much? It strikes me as a reasonably good open, secure comms protocol.

One of the big problems is that folks judge Matrix based on the legacy Element apps, which have now been succeeded by Element X: https://element.io/blog/we-have-lift-off-element-x-call-and-... etc. Element X kicks ass, in my (very biased) opinion: it's a super-speedy Rust core with fancy SwiftUI and Compose native UI layered on top. It radically outperforms any other encrypted messenger i've used in terms of UI perf…

You're probably right that it's the UX of the OG Element that was the original problem people got hung up on but Element X isn't actually a relevant answer until it's usable, regardless of how much better it sounds like it will be on paper. A secondary problem people got hung up on was the endless parade of "you're just using the wrong client, try ${this}" and then finding it was missing half the things that they were told Matrix can do.

I'm still optimistic about Matrix but I am a bit worried that it has lost a lot of steam because of this UX history.

Re: Matrix v1.15

#39

Post by deberon »

There’s a surprising amount of negativity in here. Matrix is great for me. I’m happy to see the improvements. I’m also happy to hear the team is approaching sustainability. Matrix isn’t perfect but it has only improved in the 5 years I’ve been using it. I’m looking forward to what they can do in another 5 years.

Re: Matrix v1.15

#40

Post by martindevans »

Arathorn wrote: post #8
fishgoesblub wrote: post #2

Every new release or "This week in Matrix" post I check to see if Discord style detailed permissions and voice channels get added and every time I get disappointed. I fear it'll never be added at this point due to the funding issues. I hyped it up to all of my friends who stick to Discord that "One day" it'll compete with Discord and we, and millions of others can all finally be happy. I hope that day will come, but…

What would you say the delta is between Element's current video-rooms and Discord-style voice-rooms (if you go and mute video for everyone), ooi? The only reason Element hasn't implemented precisely the same UI as Discord is because it's not (currently) trying to be a Discord competitor, but more a "run your own encrypted Teams alternative", given that's what Element customers are asking for right now, and we're havi…

In my experience with running Discord servers you setup a couple of hierarchical roles (admin, moderator, user etc) when you first setup the server and never again.

However I'm constantly adding new roles which are really just groups of users. I would say 90% of all the Discord roles I've ever created have no permissions associated with them at all and just exist to ping a group of users (or act as a tag for bots).

Maybe that's served by a different feature in Matrix for user groups. If so, that's still not quite as useful, because sometimes later on you decide the group needs a permission (e.g. a casual gaming group has grown enough to justify having it's own channel).

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