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Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

pnas.org

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Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#31

Post by vorpalhex »

cwmoore wrote: post #26
kenjackson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly second this ask.

So long as it isn’t eating the variety of fresh fruits and vegetables that produce gut serotonin in the microbial breakdown of complex carbohydrates and fiber, right?

Eating fresh fruits and veggies is a great general health advice but unlikely to shift your gut microbiome meaningfully (unless you are eating some specific fruits or fruit skins in specific conditions).

And randomly eating healthy stuff is probably not going to shift your biome in a particular direction nor eliminate the cause of biome issues.

I eat healthy including a lot of whole fruit, nuts, dried fruits, dark green veggies and grass finished meats and there are still times I have my biome be a bit off.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#32

Post by kilroy123 »

pogue wrote: post #19

I've seen probiotic supplements that have strains that claim to help with anxiety and depression, but I've never really looked into them because I'm quite skeptical they do anything. But if anyone is familiar with them and has any feedback I'd be interested to hear it.

I've had a LOT of gut problems in my life. I have a physically broken stomach, have had to have stomach surgery in the past, and probably will have to do it again soon.

Most probiotics I've taken did nothing. The only ones that seem to actually work for me are these: https://drohhiraprobiotics.com/

Not sure why it works, but anecdotally, they do.

Other things that have helped significantly – cutting out alcohol.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#33

Post by cwmoore »

evanjrowley wrote: post #15
jvm___ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we get gut bacteria from the people around us? Where does a newborn get their gut bacteria from?

It's not just food as many commenters are pointing out. It could be from what people are drinking, even water, if oral delivery is not sanitized.

So if the choice is between unsanitary water or sterile and containing chlorine, etc., which has the effect of strengthening the microbiota so that the resulting population increases perceived wellness in the host organism’s sociopolitical fitness, its simple enough, we all stop eating and drinking for ultimate safety and maximum paperclips.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#34

Post by asdff »

theptip wrote: post #24
jjk166 wrote: post #16

I think it makes sense that our microbiome should be able to trigger such a response. If your microbiome is changing, it means that some microbe is gaining numbers it didn't previously have, and your current bodily functions, such as your immune system, aren't stopping it. That doesn't necessarily mean your immune system is compromised, but if it is then it would probably be good not to spend a lot of time around oth…

The problem with Evolutionary Psychology is that it’s easy to construct this sort of “just so” story for pretty much any causal link, and they are not falsifiable. IMO the simpler hypothesis here is that this isn’t anything adaptive, it’s just another example of how biology is like spaghetti code; changing one chemical signal will affect an essentially random set of downstream systems, some of which can be causally c…

That isn't a problem because no one speaks of these suppositions in terms of "just so" but in terms of "could be due to." If you want to prove something as just so you have to do a lot more work describing a mechanism of action and that involves reaching into a different toolbox.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#35

Post by cwmoore »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #12
jvm___ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we get gut bacteria from the people around us? Where does a newborn get their gut bacteria from?

The entry point to the gut is from the mouth so because of that, I think food is where most of the gut bacteria comes from.

Sure, as long as you hold your mouth and nose closed when not eating.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#36

Post by asdff »

kilroy123 wrote: post #32
pogue wrote: post #19

I've seen probiotic supplements that have strains that claim to help with anxiety and depression, but I've never really looked into them because I'm quite skeptical they do anything. But if anyone is familiar with them and has any feedback I'd be interested to hear it.

I've had a LOT of gut problems in my life. I have a physically broken stomach, have had to have stomach surgery in the past, and probably will have to do it again soon. Most probiotics I've taken did nothing. The only ones that seem to actually work for me are these: https://drohhiraprobiotics.com/ Not sure why it works, but anecdotally, they do. Other things that have helped significantly – cutting out alcohol.

I'm not sure how many probiotics will make it through the stomach acid. One would think suppository would be vastly more effective: parachute directly onto the battlefield.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#38

Post by asdff »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #12
jvm___ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we get gut bacteria from the people around us? Where does a newborn get their gut bacteria from?

The entry point to the gut is from the mouth so because of that, I think food is where most of the gut bacteria comes from.

You have a back door as well for the gut that tends to open at least once a day. We know fecal matter is in the air in most bathrooms. It wouldn't surprise me if you got an infusion of community fecal biome right into your anus every time you used a restroom that isn't your own.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#39

Post by bhaney »

chkaloon wrote: post #5

Can we just keep taking courses of scorched earth antibiotics until we come up with a microbiome combo that feels good?

I did this years ago and it seemed to work, but n=1. It took two cycles of antibiotics and intentional introduction of "good bacteria" before I landed on something that seemed to fix most of my food intolerances. Didn't seem to have any impact on anxiety.

I learned later that this is pretty dangerous to attempt, since you're very likely to give yourself c diff or some other infection and end up with persistent IBS before you land on a good microbiome.

Re: Social anxiety disorder-associated gut microbiota increases social fear

#40

Post by Tarsul »

I know from personal experience that eating sugar does induce more anxiety in me. This might sound weird but I can "physically feel" in my head a certain anxiety when e.g. I think about something awkward. This "physical feel" stopped being there when I stopped eating sweets for a few weeks. One reason why I try to keep my sugar intake down (the other being in danger of getting diabetes...).

Thus, I wholly believe this study.

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